Yes you don’t get an actual item that you’ve bought but it still cost money and only right that you have to pay to have it replaced.
It doesn’t come included in the cost of the hearing aid, otherwise it would be replaced.
“Because now it’s a software, not a hardware and different rules apply to it. License is bound to to the user not to the hardware and Phonak is artificially enforcing their own way, because they’re greedy.”
In my opinion it is similar to buying a license for tax software and the computer fries, and you need to move the software to a new machine. You already paid for it, The company will let you install it again. Phonak is wrong, unethical and overcharging in the first place.
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That was my exact point, that’s how any sane software setup works. I’m surprised that EU consumer protectors still haven’t done anything with them.
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That’s CRAZY - you purchased the Roger device so I don’t see how Phonak justifies holding it ransom till you pay again. As I understand it, Phonak is a company based in Switzerland so maybe they make up their own laws and it would be expensive to even try to fight them. I doubt a complaint to consumer protection would get any results.
Anyway, I share your disgust with Phonak. This is not the first time they have failed me. In the past their stance in so many words has been that they just make the product and I need to go visit my audiologist.
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I don’t recall as I’ve pressed so many buttons and so forth lately. Phonak doesn’t make anything easy - one email that included steps to switch things over and ended by saying that now the devices should be paired. SHOULD BE are the key words - they didn’t say how to verify they were paired or what to do if they in fact WEREN’T paired.
I did try, just in case I had them paired without knowing it - so I turned on the R.S. and tried to see if they would stream to my hearing aids when I placed it near my TV speakers and it didn’t work.
But in fairness, as difficult as Phonak is, I think some of the difficulty in that I get frustrated with things like this and then I can’t think anymore.
Maybe I’ll give it a try again in a few weeks or so, but not going to get hung up on it anymore.
He didn’t lose the Roger device - he lost a hearing aid so it seems reasonable to me that he would be able to connect it to his new hearing aid replacement.
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Yes I know he lost a hearing aid. Unfortunately the Roger license is inside the hearing aid so obviously lost the license for what ever reason the hearing aid was lost!!
When he bought the device whoever sold it to him: was with the understanding that the RS was his along with whatever invisible stuff like licenses that is required for it to function. Phonak uses a copout, it seems to me, deflecting any obligation as merely a manufacturer.
One assumes if they buy a car that all the technology that makes it work is included. Autos now come with a computer that can be used to check malfunctions. What if the car manufacturer hands you the keys to your new auto and then you find later it doesn’t run because you have to pay ransom for the computer program that is integrated into your car? I doubt anybody would accept that kind of underhanded deal.
I read years ago a legal opinion in a dispute that an object must be fit to do the job for which it is built and advertised. In this case, the audiologist sold the device with the understanding it would work with his or my hearing aids. Maybe in the pages of fine print that you have to sign now to do anything it has legalese language that well-paid lawyers will use to get their wealthy clients off the hook. If that’s the case the first sentence in an agreement should be. Here’s this WHATEVER you are buying that function and is complete EXCEPT FOR this license thing that you need to make it work. It should state that upfront when you purchase it especially if from an audiologist instead of ebay.
You assume when you buy the car that after you sign the agreement the sales person will hand you the keys to the car. You don’t expect that you won’t be able to start the car because you have to buy the key. If he lost the key he should be able to get a replacement and not be told TOO BAD you get one key and after that you are out of luck.
Australian consumer law tends to strongly support the customer over dodgy corporates, and to that end I expect Phonak to be dealt with firmly…IF… it comes to that.
Fine print legalese will get short shrift, the seller must clearly inform anything about a purchase that exceeds what an everyday buyer might expect.
Clearly the licence process seeks to protect Phonak technology , fair enough.
What is happening here in terms of attaching the licence to the aid is overtly deceptive business conduct ; the fitting audio certainly did not provide any advice, verbal or written that suggested that the licence was encumbered in respect of ownership or usage rights
The Audio is working on the issue, after all the audio and Unitron were both consulted before trial fitting about the reinstall and they knew I had only one aid.
Phonak and Unitron are both subsidiaries of Sonova… so a bit of corporate communication might resolve the issue.
Would readers still purchase a Roger product knowing that loss of aid ( a fairly common occurrence) would result in having to repurchase a licence at whatever fee the seller chose to apply at the time ?
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Yeah good question, I guess most cases are insurance issues, for those who are not…they would need to know that it can’t be transferred or replaced at the time of sale.
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Is loosing an HA really that common? I’ve never lost a HA.
I’m quite shocked that something so expensive people seem to be extremely careless and loose it/them.
Yes sometimes I realise, it’s out of people’s hands
You got that RIGHT! I have the Roger V2 license on only ONE of my Phonak Lumity Life aids. The backup pair I HAD to buy (so I can get through a mere 24 hrs of hearing!) will require another license that I have to pay for. I’ve spent a LOT of money with Phonak (Audeo-B, Marvel, 2 pairs of Lumity Life, 2 TV Connectors, now lined up to buy the Roger V2) but they may still not give me any break at all in the necessary licensing fee.
I wear BOTH pairs of Lumity Life aids every other day - not only to give them both use and not “mothball” one pair, but also to get through more than 17.5 hrs of use, thanks to Phonak’s refusal to develop a battary-operated aid!
They’ve really got us where they want us: rechargeables will NOT get a person through ONE. FULL. DAY. So anyone who wants a newer model will HAVE to get a comparable rechargeable or grab that old pair of completely different hearing experience battery aids.
They do NOT WALK IN OUR SHOES.
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@Zebras
I’ve not lost a hearing aid, but I’ve had my dogs eat them, or NHS ones stopped working, but knowing a Roger licence is lost when this happens is a bug bear. Since I’ve had “Roger Direct” aids, this is a major concern, as the licences are frankly ridiculously expensive. My Audiologist told me how Phonak work in the business, and some of their practices are sharp, to say the least. They do everything they can to maintain, or improve market share.
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Losing hearing aids seem fairly common, at lest among my older demographic group.
How many users can tell within a minute if an aid is missing?
How far did you walk along that beach or across that road in that minute ?
I almost always flip an aid out when removing a sweater, pushing through bushes is another sure fire removal tool.
From a user perspective the aids could easily be set to sound an alarm when pairing is lost ; of course that would remove a few sales so not so good from a corporate perspective perhaps
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@tgh
My P90’s do make a noise in my other ear if a hearing aid is switched off (say, for a battery change), so I guess that would happen if I accidentally flicked one out, then walked out of range.
Guess I’m lucky.
Never had a HA fail on me including NHS ones.
I have a dog but I make sure my HAs are always away when I take them out. They are in a container where my dog can’t open them.
If a hearing aid fell out of my ear, I would know straight away as I wouldn’t be able to hear. I also would notice it not in my ears/on the back of my ears.
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Like you Ruth, I am most fortunate to have never lost an aid…(touch wood) And the only aid that has failed me, in over 30 + years, it was laying disused, for many years, when I eventually checked it, it was dead, the other fired up no problem… Although, occasionally panic has ensued, if I have been pissed (fairly rare nowadays) with too many large malt whiskies, and no idea where I laid down my aids, usually in some obscure place, and not where they live in their dryer 
As for Roger X receiver licenses, I am most fortunate to have 3 sets, in each of my 3 sets of good aids, 2 sets are (type 2) and 1 set of (type 3) apart from 1 single Roger X, the rest where bought on eBay, on the cheap… In the unfortunate event of losing any of these, I would not be massively out of pocket (nor inconvenience) older aids & Roger X receivers are fairly cheap on eBay, a few hundred pounds would replace both an aid, and a receiver, in all honesty, I probably wouldn’t bother replacing a backup set of aids/aid, and IMO, contacting Phonak would be more hassle than it’s worth, their only interest is “Your Money” and how they can relinquish you from it! Many folks out there, are obviously obliged to see, an A.uD or a HIS if they loose an aid, but I live out in the sticks, and I wanted the best that I could afford, the “Boy Scout” in me, says “always be prepared”, I cover all the bases, and hopefully every eventuality, I therefore DIY out of necessity, I have Target, I have Noahlink Wireless, I also have the Roger Installer, for moving Roger X Licenses around, I am fairly confident in programming my aids, within reason… Cheers Kev 
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I really do not get the Phonak bashing in this thread. I have found them to be very helpful the few times I have had problems. Either no charge or very fair low charges for repairs. And, very fast overnight mailings. Probably the best customer service in the industry.
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Not trying to be inflammatory, but this thread gave multiple accounts of Phonak displaying anti-consumer tactics. Their marketing (as with most manufacturers) is shady and misleading too.
You not understanding that says more about you rather than about the actual situation.
While your experience with them might be fine and dandy that’s no reason to diminish the experience of others.
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In truth @Psych1, I will praise Phonak where it is deserved, and criticise where IMO, it might be deemed, appropriate… That is my prerogative, and last time I looked free speech was permitted on this forum… And yes, Phonak do make wonderful hearing aids, and ALD’s… Unfortunately, they also exploit people with a recognised disability, by charging exorbitant prices, in a lot of instances beyond the pockets of these disabled folks, whom are left without the option to buy, simply because it’s beyond their means… Leaving the rest of us to suck it up, or do without, or in my case buy second hand ALD’s from eBay, unless I can avoid it, I will buy from there, where the prices are far more palatable… Everyone’s view of this will be different, and rightly so, my opinions might be polar opposites from others, we all think differently… Again, IMO Phonak/Sonova have profiteering, down to a fine art form… Cheers Kev
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