Personally I saw the improved features in the Real and did not quite understand. Now, after living with More 1 aids for 10 days, I understand the issue with sudden noises. I do not recall ever experiencing that issue previously. Are the Real aids priced the same as the More or higher?
@prodigyplace: Now it is I who does not understand … what exactly do you mean, Bruce?
Sudden sounds are bothersome. They do not need to be especially loud but appear loud and startling to me. At times I am confused what I am hearing. Yesterday just picking up a Corelle bowl from a wire shelf made a sudden noise when I was attempting to move around quietly. I first remember the issue when the audiologist said the word sharp. Perhaps I will adjust but it is a new experience for me.
Perhaps it is related to the frequency lowering technology needed for my loss.
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@prodigyplace: There are sliders in Genie2 that can address your issues, Bruce. I suggest that you speak to your audiologist …
I assumed at least part of that was just getting used to the aids.
The audiologist made no changes other than initial programming and REM. She never even discussed what program options were available. She only added the music program because I asked for it. I hope things improve with the different audiologist. I cannot blame my experience on her lack of Oticon experience. To me it appears to be poor training or mentoring.
Actually I don’t know yet, as I haven’t seen the pricing, but there’s usually a premium on the ‘new’ product at release.
The suggestion that you can just move a slider and turn down impact sounds is a bit flawed. As I’ve explained on here before, the Oticons seem to offer their sound up in some form of dynamic linearity fashion. This preserves normal loudness growth (within a certain time/level window) to reduce the compression artefacts that occur when you mess around with the amount of gain midway though listening to speech. The downside of this approach is that if the input ramps up REALLY quickly, the linearity doofer will bang the output up before the MPO can kick in. If it’s momentary like a door slam or a gunshot, then you want something to put a limit on that really rapidly and let go really rapidly so that the speech is preserved either side.
I also wonder if it’s an attempt to stop Oticons blowing their 100/105dB receivers quite as often as they do.
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@Um_bongo : That’s not quite what I said. There are slides like “Detail”, “Comfort”, etc (I can’t remember them by heart) that have quite an impact on the way my *More1s deliver sudden sounds to me, but I never suggested this as a simplistic panacea.
If you will kindly reread my post(s) you will appreciate that I suggested that the audiologist be made aware of the issue so that the proper treatment adjustments can be made, in-clinic.
I think we both understand you, It appears that at least some of that logic has been automated. My aids are set up as a new user, even though I have been wearing aids for over 20 years. She told me when I asked but did not offer to try more experienced settings. I hope that means I am not experiencing the full benefit of the More aids. I dread making an expensive mistake without much benefit over Costco’s offerings.
@prodigyplace: That’s exactly what I’m suggesting Bruce: that you’re not getting the full benefit from your More hearing aids. If I’m not mistaken, Chuck (@cvkemp) has had the same experience. It took him and his audiologist a little while to learn the nuances of the Oticon ways of doing things. But they both persisted and worked together, and I think his posts on this subject speak for themselves.
He is a happy Oticon customer, as am I. And it was also true for me that I had to do a little bit of mutual education with my audiologist, in order to discover all of the little tweaks that are possible to address my subtle auditory idiosyncrasies.
So I hope that this will hold true for you also, and that you and your new audiologist will be able to make the adjustments required so that you may enjoy the full benefits of these great little devices.
I asked about the price difference because, I think, I could return the More for the Real and suffer a $400 charge over the price. That should also let me move to disposable batteries if I choose.
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@prodigyplace: My unsolicited opinion? If it were me, I’d gladly pay that premium just to get back to disposable batteries.
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You’re literally dancing on a pinhead now.
The More Sound ‘slider’ specifically deals with speech understanding/clarity on a scale which rises in situational complexity.
As (if you read and understood my post on the dynamic linearity doofer) you’d understand; rapid loud sounds have a propensity to be very loud in louder average conditions. This is what they are addressing by putting a fast Fourier detector in the stage after the mic, they can detect the slope of the upswing in the signal before processing and reduce gain either in the amp or possibly at the output.
You don’t want to shut down the global settings for clarity in complex environments on the ‘slider’ as you’ll lose the detail.
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Go for it: they should be similarish as the supplier won’t be buying a charger as well.
Hello everyone I am on the last leg of my cruise. I had a terrible time with foreign accents, and loud speakers but overall a good experience with traveling with my aids. The smart charger was a major factor in my experience as the little bit of drying really helped. I am hoping to get the Real disposable battery aids as the rechargeable batteries just don’t last me over 18 hours. The background noise was really high but I could mostly handle it and understand conversations. I nearly jumped out of my skin a few times with sudden sounds that I couldn’t locate.
By the way I don’t blame my issues with my hearing on my aids, I finally understand that my hearing loss is my problem
@Um_bongo: Thanks fr explaining that. As I’m sure you can appreciate, I am just a lay person, and even though I understand a little bit about mathematics and physics, and understand about mathematics and Fourier transformations, and things like that, I don’t understand how it applies to my hearing aids. All I know is when my audiologist touches those sliders we’re talking about, it makes a difference in what I hear, and It’s very important to me to be able to hear sudden sounds in my environment.
When my epileptic dog has a seizure, and he’s in another part of the house, I want to be able to hear that. I don’t want my hearing devices to attenuate that. I don’t mind that I hear a loud sound when my cat knocks something off the top of the fridge and it comes crashing to the floor. These are all sounds that I want to hear.
I have a little bit of acquaintance with the possibilities of attenuating or not attenuating sounds within my More hearing aids. The hearing aids are powerful devices, any audiologist and I have yet to explore all their possibilities.
All I’m saying to Bruce is that - given the apparent inexperience of his first fitter with what Oticon hearing aids are capable of - I don’t think that he’s getting the full benefit from them. I’m trying to comfort him a little bit so that he’s not worrying about having made a bad and very costly decision.
That’s where I’m coming from. The knowledge that I have to work with to accomplish that is different from what you possess.
Quite possibly.
However ’Oticon’ have identified this area, thrown money at it and determined a shortfall in their performance. This overlaps with the degree of recruitment and to some extent, existing user experience.
Not everyone will need this feature, but, as has been mentioned above, if it’s a particular gripe of the user, this addresses it. Unitron/Sonova added something similar to their feature set about five years ago. Impact noise suppression is handy.
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@Um_bongo: Understood. Once again - thank you for explaining.
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At least for the More, the price is the same for both models, I believe. I assume additional profit is for Oticon.
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My experience with sudden loud sounds is that sometimes a sudden loud sound can sound like a bomb going off, but that is a minor and fairly infrequent inconvenience, rather than a real problem. At least that is my perception.
But Oticon seems to be making a big deal about this issue, even to the point of developing a new platform and releasing a new product, seemingly mostly to address it. Offhand that seems like way too much effort and expense to address a minor problem.
My question is: Is this mitigation of the sudden noise problem likely to improve a user’s speech in noice comprehension? Maybe the sudden noise issue is more of an obstacle to hearing in noise than I realize. Could someone with some professional knowledge weigh in here? Thank you.
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Actually, Oticon has had a feature called Transient Noise Management (way back since the original OPN days if not even before it) that’s supposed to deal with sudden loud sounds (see screenshot below). It’s not on a slider, but you have 4 different setting values for it.
So I don’t think sudden loud sounds has been a very big issue with Oticon because as far as I can remember since I joined this forum (even before the previous forum was bought out by this forum), I’ve never heard of any Oticon wearer complaining that sudden loud sounds make them leave Oticon for another brand.
I’ve personally tried the Transient Noise Management feature when I play tennis and the loud pop sound of the ball when hitting the racket string definitely gets subdued. But perhaps the period when it gets subdued, especially the recovery period when it opens up again, is probably not very fast. So the experience is that you hear a muted pop sound on the ball that’s not very natural. But it’s only more noticeable for tennis because you experience this pop sound every other second or so while playing tennis. Most other sudden loud sounds around the house are much less frequent and recurring, so the issue is not as big or bad to begin with.
I suspect that Bruce @prodigyplace might have noticed this issue more because he’s new to the More, so the initial sensitivity to what he hears is probably more acute compared to seasoned wearers of Oticon who have gotten more used to it. We also don’t know whether Bruce’s audi has even turned on the TNM for his More yet. Of course if not, then the effect of sudden loud sounds would even be pronounced for him compared to somebody who’s had their TNM turned on to some value.
I’m guessing that the Oticon Real’s handling of sudden sounds is probably more refined, and the recovery from its activation is probably much faster, at least fast enough that you don’t experience a muting sensation like you do through the TNM setting. I actually turn off or down my TNM setting so that I can hear the ball pop better and more fully when I play tennis because I don’t like that frequent muting feeling. I also want to hear the pop sound because its characteristic tells me how well I’ve hit that ball, I just don’t like how loud it is. But I’d rather it be loud than it be too muted. I suspect that with the new Sudden Sound Stabilizer in the Real, I would be able to get the full characteristic of the ball pop sound without getting that muted feeling anymore, yet it still be subdued enough to a more comfortable level. But that’s just my guess. It’d be nice if somebody who will have the Oticon Real can report on how well it works compared to the old TNM feature.
Below is a screenshot of the Real 1 in Genie 2, specifically the page for Sudden Sound Stabilizer. They’ve removed the TNM from the Automatics page and inserted the Sudden Sound Stabilizer in the Fine Tuning page now. In the place of the TNM in the Automatics page is the Wind & Handling Stabilizer.
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