Well, I stand to be corrected, Chuck, since you’ve worn more different models of Oticon than I have, however, in none the technical papers published by Oticon that I’ve read, nor in any of the online courses I’ve taken, have I ever encountered a reference to program switching.
There’s channel and module switching within MSI and MSA, to be sure, but I have never run across program switching à la Phonak or Unitron.
That I agree with, Oticon doesn’t make a big deal out of it as a marketing tool like Phonak. But it is most definitely there, the early Oticon aids would beep when they changed, I complained and my audiologist removed the beep. But I could still hear the switch. The OPN aids I could hear them switch when I was out in the woods. The OPNS not that much, and the More aids are really fast at switching but they do.I couldn’t tell you how may setting there are, Oticon doesn’t make a big deal out of it like Phonak
Don’t worry Oticon doesn’t seem to give all of the fine details. I remember getting my first Oticon dual aids, they only had the default program, no volume control either. I asked how was I going to control them and was told they are fully automatic. I finally got a streamer that had the volume control and a audio plug for streaming. After I got use to them and got my domes corrected they were just as great possible at the time. They managed the environment quite well, and they handled the volume better then i.would have expected. The next ones the Alta Pros with the streamer pro was even better with connectivity to most of the older Bluetooth phones. And the streamer had t-coils that worked wonderfully in a movie theater or church.
Well, I only own the OPN 1 and don’t have personal experience with the OPN S or More like you, Chuck, even though I have whitepaper knowledge of the OPN S and More. But as an owner of the OPN 1, I never personally hear my OPN 1 switch programs at all. I’m not disputing what you hear, Chuck, I’m just saying that I have a different experience than you do, so I’m also sharing my (different) experience here as well.
Also, just to clarify, the Autosense on the Phonak as I understand it is designed to switch between discrete programs inside the Phonak HA. For example, Phonak may have P1 for default, P2 for Speech in Noise, P3 for Driving, for example. The way Autosense works, is that for example, if it detects a lot of road noise, it may switch from P1 Default to P3 Driving. But that’s a discrete switch from one discrete program to another. Then if you get out of your car and go into a restaurant with lots of people talking, then Autosense will switch from P3 Driving to P2 Speech in Noise, yet another discrete switch from one discrete program to another.
We cannot compare the Oticon OPN switching between simple and complex environments to the Phonak Autosense switching between one environment to another, because they’re apple and oranges in terms of implementation. For example, the OPN switching between simple and complex NEVER goes outside of its selected program to another discrete program. If you’re in P1 Default, you REMAIN in P1 Default even if your OPN senses a difference and transition from simple to complex. The OPN does NOT go from P1 Default to P2 Speech in Noise automatically FOR you (assuming that’s what you have in the OPN).
To back up what I’m saying above, below is an excerpt from the Oticon whitepaper on the OpenSound Navigator (OSN). Note how it says that the transition between simple and complex are continuous and smooth and not points on a line. And in the end, it re-emphasizes that the OSN does not have a mode switch with the potential audible artifacts that mode switches are known to cause. So I can confirm that I never hear any mode switch on my OPN 1. What you heard on your OPN 1 maybe something else (static of some sort) that you may attribute to mode switches, but it probably was not the case, Chuck.
Now, back to the topic at hand about MyMusic. MyMusic is a discrete built-in program in the More, and if the way the More is implemented is similar to the OPN and OPN S like you alluded to, the More will NOT switch automatically back and forth between P1 Default and the MyMusic program. It would have to be a manual intervention by the user to physically make this program switch possible.
I know that you said that the Oticon rep told your audi that P1 Default would automatically switch to MyMusic (but still remain in P1 physically), and you believe them because now after the firmware update, all of a sudden music in P1 sounds better for you. I don’t fault you for believing them because after all, they’re the “authority” on Oticon and what you hear seems to confirm what they’re saying. But I’ve had my fair share of Oticon rep saying things that don’t make sense or don’t appear credible to me in my books, so I’ll continue to NOT believe this bit that the Oticon rep told your audi, at least until somebody else (or several people) can corroborate this on the forum.
Because people hear things differently so I can’t really say why you notice that music sounds better to you before in the same P1 program after your firmware update. But Jim (@SpudGunner) hates how MyMusic sounds, yet in his P1 program, when he listen to music in P1, he notices that it sounds better/different than how MyMusic sounds. So that already implies that music in P1 does not sound the same as MyMusic stand-alone, at least in Jim’s book. So at least for Jim, he cannot corroborate with your experience, so now it still casts doubt as to what the Oticon rep told you is legit or not. Of course, Jim, please correct me if I’m wrong about what I just said above.
Also, using common sense, music is a VERY difficult thing to detect. Acapella is music. Drum solo is music. Rapping without accompanying instruments is still music. Just light humming by somebody can be music. Would the More have such smart to really know for real what is music or not, enough so that it would have the audacity to decide for users what music really is, enough to change the P1 program to MyMusic without the user’s consent? I don’t think so. It doesn’t make sense to me at all. Maybe Oticon would need another DNN with another 12 million sound scenes before it can really cover all the cases to decide with any authority what music really is.
Another way to think of it. If Oticon can really do it all in P1 (automatically switch to MyMusic in P1 when music is detected), then why would it even need to provide the user with a discrete MyMusic program at all then?
From my audiologist, the she is the Oticon VA rep.
She emailed me back and indicated the firmware update makes my music like an automatic program when it detects music…but if people are talking it will default back to a speech in noise program, thus treating the music as secondary to speech. So you are benefitting from the update only if you are listening to music by yourself. What I did not know was the you can make it a dedicated program which then keeps the program with a music focus at the expense of speech.
Also to clarify here, with my personal experience with the OPN 1, they would never beep nor would I hear any beep UNLESS I physically change to a different program myself, then it would beep twice for P2, thrice for P3, 4 times for P4, etc.
But yes, you can turn off the beeping for program changes in Genie 2. In the screenshot below, at the bottom, if the audi just checks off the “Program Change (beep)” box, then a program change would not beep anymore.
There’s a possibility that your OPN 1 buttons were defective and caused program changes without pushing any button. In which case, even if your audi turns off the program change beep, for sure you can hear a momentary pause as the program (inadvertently in your situation) change from one program to the next. But if it remains in one program, there wouldn’t be any beep or momentary pause or static noise when the OPN transitions from a simpler or a more complex environment. At least it’s seamless to me.
Then explain why I haven’t ever really needed any but the default program all of these years reboot the environment I have been end. And I have definitely noticed the switching in the OPN1 aids when going into different environments. I may call them.programs but they are really different computer routines.
It’s because the default P1 program can handle almost all of the environments most of the times. Even listening to music in P1 on the OPN 1 is very acceptable as well. I rarely have to switch from other programs outside of P1 myself either.
It’s not because your OPN 1 was auto-switching between the discrete programs you had. It’s only because the P1 Default program can handle anything between the simplest to the most complex environments all by itself without needing to automatically enter into any of the other programs.
Oticon originally only had the P1 program upon the initial release because they figured that it was really all their users need. About 3 quarters later, many people misunderstood this and thought that the Oticon OPN was lacking compared to the competition because it only had 1 program while the competition had several. So it was mostly due to marketing pressure that Oticon started releasing more built-in programs like Speech in Noise and Comfort and Lecture and Tcoil, to make it seem comparable to the competition feature-wise. But even Donald Schum back then admitted as such when he introduced the release of the other built-in programs, that P1 was really mostly all users should need, but due to popular demands, they released other customized built-in programs to “enhance” their program portfolio.
You miss understanding my meaning, it is the same concept as autosense, it is really routines or sub programs. But it is changing for the different sound environments regardless of what we may think are call it.
I know what I was hearing and it was before the OPN hearing aid days.
Well, @cvkemp and @Volusiano, I’ve been quiet for a while, but I just have to jump into this one!
I’m NOT knocking you Chuck, but if indeed you have a serious love of music, and possess the components required to listen to your music in High Fidelity, there is no way possible you could experience the true sound quality in the default program.
Volusiano is correct, in that Oticon does not have discreet program switching a la Autosense, it is transparent.
I wore the Agil Pro, and OPN 1, as well as the OPN S1, and never experienced audible switching, ever, in any of them.
I saw my Community Care Audi yesterday, and he was very amenable to my DIY bent.
He took the time to show me how the More MyMusic program, does indeed compress the midrange frequencies, at least in my prescription.
He showed me how to adjust the gains in the Fitting Section of Genie 2, in order to get more linear response curve.
It made quite an improvement, and now I have the tools to further tweak the program, although I’m quite pleased with the Music Program I created.
Bottom line, if you are musically inclined, there is no way the default program is going to sound musical, in any way, shape or form.
Im not trying to be an audio snob, but that’s the truth!
I may enjoy music but don’t have any music background, any you do know what I hear or don’t hear. I.will find out in a couple of weeks if I can hear the difference between the default program and the MyMusic program but until then i.will continue to finally enjoy music again. We are all different and hear different and I sure don’t care for the fact others are trying to.tell me what i.hear and don’t. Also, I totally believe what i.have been.told by my audiologist and the Oticon.rep even of you don’t. I don’t DIY as you do.but i.do make adjustments to my own aids in the Clinic under the supervision of my audiologist that is how I finally have managed to hear as well as I do. And to be.fair to you your hearing loss is totally different than my.loss and my.loss requires a lot of amplification in the middle frequencies. From now on I will just enjoy things again and not worry about the possibility of maybe help others.
Again I know what I know and don’t need anyone trying to tell me what I hear or don’t hear.
No argument here Chuck.
I respect your feelings.
When you get the MyMusic program installed, please ask your audi to see if the gains are compressed in the mid frequencies. I’d be curious to know if it’s just my script, or Oticon’s.
If indeed, he sees they are compressed, have him adjust the gains to separate the lows from the mids, and highs for you.
For me to understand speech my audiologist has pretty much opened my mid frequencies all the way.open. I hear lows without my aids but I am starting to lose my high frequencies now. With my hearing loss , I am.screwed once i.loss my highs as well as my mid range frequencies
sniff I’m not musically inclined! Listening to my guitars through my General program is not bad, at all!
That’s alarming news, Chuck.
I’m sorry to read that.
Is that all related to your service related hearing loss, You’re not as old as me, but it sounds from your description , you’re rapidly losing valuable frequencies.
Have you seen an ENT?
I am 74 as of tomorrow, my loss started as a cookie bite with a moderate loss 1500 to 3000 hz, as I age I have lost more but my 1500 to 3000 has stabilized a lot but my highs are going now. My VA audiologist is also an ENT, and also is a university professional that specializes in CI fittings. Unfortunately at this time the clinic I go to isn’t yet set up to do CI mappings, But the number of Veterans that have or need CI is growing so they are in the planning stage of getting the needed equipment. When I first met my audiologist my unaided WR was 55% in each ear. Now it is about 45% unaided but wit my More1 aids I am up to almost 90% with aids. My Audiologist tells me it is unusual to see that big of gain with aids. I guess if I live long enough I will either go mostly deaf or have to have a CI or two.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
I’ll be 81 Dec. 14th, I never thought I’d make it past 60!
Your WR is amazing with the More’s.
I hope you last long enough to avoid either situation, my friend.
Chuck,
