Upgrade from Phonak Naída V UP

Hearing Aids
#1

Starting to explore the possibility of upgrading my aids as they are almost 5 years old now. I’ve always had great success with Phonak and never had any issue with the reliability.

Attached is my last audiogram. I know that I’m in the ultra power aid requirements and open to even looking at other manufacturers. If, I were to start with Phonak again, has anyone experienced this similar upgrade from the Nadia V to the Marvel models? (are the equivalent in terms of power?). Also, I read a little about the Paradise model. Would this be coming out soon for the Nadia aids?

Audio exam
Audio exam809×713 49.8 KB

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#2

Apologies if you’ve heard this before, but that really looks like Cochlear Implant territory. I doubt you’re going to notice much of a difference no matter what hearing aid you use.
I think the Naida Marvel is only available in SuperPower (size 13 battery), although I think it would cover the loss. It would give you streaming directly from your cell phone and most Bluetooth devices as well as from TV with addition of TV Connect. I don’t think there will be a Paradise version for awhile. Technically the Audeo Paradise (Receiver in Canal) hearing aid with an ultrapower receiver might barely cover the loss but expect you’d be disappointed.

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#3

Thanks MDB,

Yes, I have heard this before, but I never really understand where that range is? I’ve been a lifelong aid user (46 years now!) and I do reasonably well with my aids (using custom mold/closed with slim tubes).

Could you help me understand why I would not “hear” the difference between aids with my loss?

Never been offer or aware of the ultrapower receiver. I would think that I would never have been a candidate due to the feedback of the mic? Has this technology improved?

#4

I’m not an audiolgist so I’m going from impressions from what I’ve read. I think any loss of 90 dB or more (a profound loss) across most frequencies is a potential candidate for Cochlear Implant. Word recognition scores are also very important. If you get good word recognition with amplification (50% or better) then Cochlear Implant might not be appropriate.
It’s also my impression that with a profound loss that a lot of the fany processing newer hearing aids doesn’t help much. You mainly need gain. That said, streaming to phone and TV could make a significant difference. I would think feedback could be controlled with an unvented silicone mold, but don’t know. I suspect you would not get enough gain. I’m surprised you’re in slim tubes. I’d love it if one of our audiologists could comment if I’m basically right or if I’m full of it! :slight_smile:

#5

Yes, here was my last speech recognition:

image

I do remember when I first starting using the Phonak with the sound recover, really did help me.

I am using unvented silicone mold with slim tubes. Thank you for your input, would also love to hear from the audiologist…

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#6

Are you using the power slimtubes? I ran them on both UP and SP Naida aids with soft silicone molds, very comfortable.

Your word recognition is borderline CI. Another test in noise might be a better way to test you though.

If you have questions about cochlear implants, getting an evaluation is the best way to get educated. That way you are getting straight facts or should.

If you are in a position to try the Naida Marvel SP aids or the Costco Brio 4 aids with ear molds, you might be surprised how well they do if you are liking your Venture Naida aids with slimtubes. Gains should be very similar based on slimtubes.

#7

Yes, using the power slimtubes.

My interpretation of CI is that I would lose all my initial hearing and what my brain has adapted too, that at my age would not really gain any benefits.

You answer another question I had about Costco brands. I take it that the Costco Brio is the equivalent of the Nadia aids?

#8

The Costco Brio are the same as the Nadia aid

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#9

Not trying to take away from the topic but I appreciate the confirmation. Planning to get my father fitted with these since he has the Naida Q70’s and is hoping for something a little newer with phone functions and the TV Connector.

#10

My hearing is worse than yours and l currently use the Phonak Naida V90 SP. My WR scores are terrible and 80 percent of the time l depend on speech reading and 20 percent sounds. I have the TV Link and the Compilot 2 devices, they both are great streaming device l use every day. I refuse to get CI implants. You could try the Naida Marvel SP and they have better gains and improved speech processing.

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#11

Thank Terost,

Yes, my V90 UP, I feel I still have a lot of room in the gain, so I believe the SP may work for me.

#12

@Neville, @Um_bongo Am I correct that somebody with a near flat 90-100 dB loss is unlikely to benefit much from an upgrade from a Naida V to Naida M with regards to sound processing? I’m thinking the main benefit would be direct streaming, although I think that’s pretty decent with Compilot 2 with Naida V. My bias is to think that somebody with this severe of a loss mainly needs plenty of gain and advances in sound processing aren’t going to help much, or am I totally off base?
My first thoughts were cochlear implant, but WRS are 56 and 64% so maybe plenty of gain is good enough?

#13

That is a great question, as this will help me become better informed before my next audiologist appointment. Being budget-conscious, I certainly do not want to be getting “more aids” than will be beneficial.

I do remember when doing a trial of the “sound recover”, this feature did and does allow me to hear higher frequency noise.

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#14

All the audiologist l visited and they all said that l need the Naida UP aids. It has the extra gain there but not needed at this time and in the next few years. I have found that the SP is good enough for the next few years as l am not using all the gains the SP provides. All the audiologist said the UP at first because they get the biggest profits and not willing to pay 5g for a pair of Belong UP aids. I have tested the V90 aids with and without the sound recover option and the sound recover feature really works. I am hearing soft sounds and other sounds l have not heard with my older 2007 Starkey Destiny aids.

#15

It would largely depend on the complexity of the soundscape they are in and how the programming of the aid reflects that combined with the mental plasticity of the wearer.

Arguably the faster chip and the better fast syllabic processing of the later model would work better, with more feedback capability. However there’s a massive caveat, if the wearer finds the processing more audilogically challenging, then the potential benefit could be lost due to increased auditory fatigue.

So, to answer your question, the answer in terms of noticeable benefit might be different based on whether the user is 15 or 85, though you could technically manage the transitions to a greater extent on the later model if it was found to be fatiguing.

Edit; Also, there’s no mention if the loss is mixed or not.

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#16

His audiogram is in the first post. Looks like a 20dB gap on average? by eyeballing it.

#17

On his audiogram it shows no response at 6000 hertz up. If he actually hears tones below 6000 hertz it is likely with proper fit aids he could understand speech.

#18

No, that’s a Sensorineural, I hadn’t seen the first post when I responded.

The little arrows on the characters means he exceeded the test capability of the Bone Conduction transducer.

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#19

You already have it, that’s the UP at the end of the model description.

Good wrs is 90 and above.
CI candidacy is 40 or below.

Everything in between is where no aids (alone) can help you get better wrs, and depending on your loss you might get something out of it. Brain can but isn’t obliged to extract the most out of the sound mess it receives.
That’s in quiet.
Add noise and it is horrible strain.

For some people, too much gain brings distortion that makes everything uncomprehensible.

Also, wrs from audiogram is by default without speech recovery, so, it is possible that someone with speech recovery is doing much better than without it (that’s the whole point of SR anyway).

Though, it would be interesting to see ‘wrs’ on fitted aids. It’s a pity they don’t do it…

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#20

Thank you for the comments, I’m learning a lot from these discussions.

A little about my background. I’m currently 48 years old, and while my hearing loss happened “at birth”, I did not start wearing aids till I was two. Obviously, I grew up wearing analog aids, so per this conversation, I probably never heard the high-frequency sounds within speech, but adapted per speech therapy, etc. I also assuming fatiguing was not a factor, since I started at an early age. The sound recovery helps me notice new sounds (birds, whistles), but not really sure if it helps me with my speech recognition.

One thing that is interesting, I never realize how much I relied on lip-reading until this pandemic started (masks).

Um-bongo, can you explain what you mean by this comment?

The little arrows on the characters mean he exceeded the test capability of the Bone Conduction transducer.