Left leaning or not, and in no defence of Phonak; the device was supplied by the Audiologist. They are responsible for the refund.
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An Audi’s commission for selling the Roger Pen and Select is HUGE. Thus you will find many who will pump these devices more so for personal financial gain, then actual user benefit. Seriously if I’m sitting at a table with a few friends (4) I should be able to hear fairly well with a “state of the art” hearing aid. That just cost me $$$$. But now my Audi suggests the Select as a support device for $$$$. Of course if I’m sitting with my friends with background noise, music, etc., the select is useless. And should someone place a pitcher of beer in front of my “Select” on the table it won’t work. Blocking signal transmission. You have to be very careful researching these devices before you buy, especially if your Audi is really pushing them just for the HUGE commission,
I know you don’t like our profession, but stick to the facts.
The margin on the Roger devices isn’t at the level you describe. Relative to other sales, the return is pretty meagre, if you consider the amount of time, effort and ongoing support these devices need.
If you want to have a go at anyone, perhaps you should look at the chain Audiology businesses owned/driven by the main manufacturers. It’s the vertical integration of the market that keeps the profits within a small group of companies.
The OP has a problem with the service at the point of purchase, railing against the whole industry with your unresolved rage doesn’t resolve their issue in any way and certainly doesn’t add to the merits of the discussion.
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Please don’t shoot the messenger. I believe kcsummerkc opened this topic up so he/she is fair game and not others.
Honestly, it’s likely the audiologist WOULD have offered some sort of refund had it been requested in a timely fashion, even if the initial pandemic shutdown had caused a significant delay past the expected return period. Sounds like a refund was never requested.
It’s also likely that if the user went back to the original provider and asked for help understanding how to use the device, they would be helped.
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Yes, inside the return period.
If period is gone, it’s gone.
I definitely agree that you should exercise your right for refund if you’re not happy with the product.
However, if you failed to do that, it’s not product manufacturer’s fault that you didn’t.
I agree. Blame should be on the seller since this seller is the one who is responsible for fitting the device to personal hearing loss.
However, OP focused on blaming the phonak. Which just doesn’t make sense.
Only if your WRS is 90 and above.
For all other cases, your cochlea might be too damaged to get great comprehension, no matter of the price of the device. You might get lucky if you have brain that can yield a lot out of 70 WRS, mine can’t even with select. My bad ear if used together with good ear lowers the total recognition score.
But with select AND good ear I can go back up, not to 100% if there’s a bit of bg noise, but, without select, and only top tech aids, it’s significantly worse.
And there lie the biggest problem that users don’t want to realise, and I agree, many dispensers fail to explain what are the limitations of the tech. And that limits DEPEND on your hearing loss.
Not everyone is ‘lucky’ in a sense that they ‘only’ need an amplification.
This wasn’t my experience. I put it on a turned over ashtray to avoid risk of drinks spilled on the table, but that’s it, I don’t check for lines of sight between mic and each person speaking. Frying things in pan several meters away had more impact on my comprehension around the table than any bottle on the table.
You have to change fitter if they’re like that. Fitter should work in your interest, and honestly explain the options.
I agree that fitter is a place to go to.
I just don’t agree with the generalisation that select is poor product just because someone got bad fitter. Change fitter.
You decide who will get your money.
And act inside your boundaries, eg return period.
Or if they won’t then leave review all around about that bad fitter.
But yes, I agree with you - it definitely doesn’t look like the idea was to solve own problem, or make the best out of the situation as it went on.
About using the device, sticking with us here would be enough, we could help to figure some things out.
I always wondered about those amazon 1 star reviews when they say ‘I opened the package 3 months after the return period, I don’t like it, I cannot return it, so product sux’. But it seems that people have the same approach for many things, not just online shopping of things of trivial value.
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Couple more things to add here.
I remember reading an essentially internal Phonak note some years back (2015?) by one of their people who had worked extensively on the Roger pen. He mentioned it had taken them 7 years to create this thing and bring it to the market. His piece also spelled out some of the limitations of hearing aids at the time - where they work ok and where they won’t. It was obviously not written by someone in the marketing department who would only talk about the good points.
Dr Cliff’s YouTube video’s are also a good learning tool. I noted him saying that after he has done the Audiogram and sound conduction tests, a very high priority for him is the find out the WRS score as was mentioned above. A high score tells him hearing aids can help a bunch if programmed well. A low score means a real struggle with low chances of customer satisfaction. He is a big believer in REM testing to check on how the manufacturer’s first fit software has worked - and then using the REM equipment to finish the job and get the hearing aid to closely match the prescription.
He shows examples of fittings done by some Costco fitters or audi’s that were poorly done and then brought to him to see if he could improve things by the dissatisfied customer, while also pointing out that Costco has good audi’s too. His REM procedure was able to save the day for several customers. Before and after charts were dramatic. Maybe the audi was fresh out of school.
Lastly - Audi’s can be great and helpful. But very few of them use Roger equipment themselves so their experience can be lacking on the fine details. We day-to-day users have to do our homework too if we want to get the most out of this equipment. As folks on this site know, all the right info is not in the user manual. And you have to look around to learn.
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Something more - Zoom meetings.
This probably should be on a thread of it’s own, but since this thread is largely on assistive equipment such as Roger stuff I will add it here.
I belong to a retired men’s discussion group. We have met monthly for a number of years. In pre Covid days we would take turns in meeting at each other’s homes - say in the living room - for a two hour discussion.
Not exactly conducive for a guy with a major hearing problem - but with Roger pens - sometimes networked - I persevered and picked up what I could. I also got my Cochlear implant in this period and that helped a lot too.
Since about last April we switched to Zoom. Each guy used his laptop or Ipad or even iPhone and we carried on. I would use either a Roger pen or more lately the Select plugged into the earphone outlet on the laptop. I found the clarity of the the Select to be a little better.
For me it’s been great and I thought I should point out why.
Every other guy has his own mic on his device. And they all work fine.
Due to the format only one person can speak at a time.
My Select connects to both my Phonak hearing aid and my Cochlear implant and I have no problem understanding unless the speaker has English as a second language and pronounces word a little different.
Overall a big help to me. Perhaps it could help you.
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Thanks for sharing your experiences with Roger Select. Does one of the cables provided have a small slot to plug the Roger Select into? I’m trying to figure out if I have all the connectors I should. The one I do have that is to go into the TV doesn’t fit any of the jacks on my TV and its not an old TV which was a big item on my list I wanted to discuss with Phonak representative but the first time he didn’t understand one of the cables I got with the device and the second told me straightaway he couldn’t help because I was using hearing aids to talk to him which seems silly that a manufacturer of my hearing aids says I need to not use them on the phone. If I couldn’t use them on the phone I might throw them in the trash today, only reason not to would be I enjoy songbirds and they work good for that.
I don’t want help particularly using Roger device with phone in fact according to phonak I can’t use my phone and hearing aids with a Roger device. MOSTLY I want to be able to hear the TV which now I have to read close captions. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO HEAR CONVERSATIONS BETTER because right now I feel left out of society. On TV Some voices are ok but mainly its very tinny and echo sounds so watching a movie is no fun. I don’t understand all the phonak tv connects and this and that. My audiologist told me the IN would be easier but I’m beginning to believe none of the professionals on this.
I’ve tried to tell my family that LOUDER is not necessarily better, in fact sometimes its worse. People get frustrated tired of repeating themselves and I feel bad continually saying I didn’t hear. So now I understand why in the past people with hearing problems used to sit and say nothing because sometimes its just easier on everybody. But that’s not what I want and not what I expected with an expenditure of around $5,000 total.
I find myself feeling cheated out of life. I would go to meetings here in my small town and think I have ideas that might be helpful but I don’t go because a room full of people is all just psychobabble noise and all I want to do is go home.
I’m irritated with the government and Medicare which IS NOT FREE, we pay for it. But they say they don’t pay for hearing aids because THERE’S NO PROOF THEY INCREASE QUALITY OF LIFE. Now that’s insane. Anybody who believes that should wear earplugs and try to be a part of society.
My audiologist WHEN I HAD ONE told me that hearing aids won’t make hearing like before but I expected better than this.
And now having lost my audiologist because of covid and now moving to a small town I’ve been in despair several times. The worst was while trying to change the wax filters the tiny domes, one of them I couldn’t get it back on and twice it has bounced completely off the bed and onto the floor and was nowhere to be found. The domes I have are smallest ones available - audiologist said they were best for me. Using just one hearing aid didn’t work well so I had an acquaintance call where I used to see my audiologist and ask if they could mail one to me and they REFUSED and when I asked why they said because THEY DIDN’T WANT TO MAIL THEM.
At that time I had just moved here, my phone carrier in the area wasn’t working, I had no internet yet, and my hearing aids weren’t working and I had all kinds of people I needed to talk to in order to get things set up and I COULDN’T COMMUNICATE other than yelling at people and having them yell back at me.
This is not ANYTHING APPROACHING QUALITY OF LIFE TO FEEL SO ALIENATED and isolated and without much hope of improvement. I don’t know if I can ever afford different hearing aids when these no longer work at all.
The substitute audiologist who “squeezed me in” to hand me the Roger device didn’t mention how long I had to decide so I stupidly assumed it would be 3 months like for my hearing aids but later I was told a week or two so I was already outside the limit.
I’M ANGRY (and I’m sorry that my anger carries over to this forum) that I feel like I paid a lot of money and have been thrown to the wolves, to use a metaphor. I’m not stupid, I used to be able to converse very well having an extensive vocabulary. Getting old isn’t the problem. It’s not being able to hear which has left me feeling isolated. But when I eventually am physically and mentally old in addition to not hearing it will be a prison sentence.
I haven’t the funds to try different hearing aids. It was a stretch to get what I have. But I’m feeling like timing was against me when I got this device. Moving to a smaller location, having no audiologist, no phone or computer connection and barely, sometimes non-functioning hearing aids has pushed me to the limit of my endurance.
I can’t really say too much else because the only thing clear from what I’m writing (it seems to me) is that I am an ANGRY PERSON and who needs that? I wouldn’t blame people for not wanting to talk to me or help me BUT PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY ENTIRE LIFE HAS BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN moving to this small town to escape the violence that took over in my old neighborhood. I mourn my home that I loved and my garden and flowers and the birds and the little wren who came every spring. I miss the funny squirrels I used to feed, going out last winter in the middle of heavy snows to replenish food supplies of stray kitties, the birds and squirrels. I’m angry I was forced to flee the violence and leave my home of 30 years behind.
I’m not a bad person but I can see why people might want to avoid me.
I never requested a refund because I never was told how long I had to try them. I thought it would be 3 months like my hearing aids but then was told it was a week or two and I was already past that. But why is that different for everyone. It seems a crap shoot basically, some people had 3 months and others no trial or very short.
COVID bears a lot of responsibility. My audiologist I worked with and had good luck disappeared and so I was “squeezed in” with appointments with someone I didn’t know and didn’t know me. She was much different from the one I used to see.
I keep saying the same thing over here trying to respond because I don’t want people to think after they took the trouble of writing to me that I’m dismissing their efforts.
I’m just at my wits end and feel quite isolated much of the time and my family is farther away now. I’m finding the world to be a very alien threatening scary place too much of the time.
I couldn’t go back to the original provider because she was scared of covid and vanished. This is not my fault no matter how much you want to blame me.
Thank you, on top of everything else I’ve been thru relocating and leaving everything I knew behind and having no audiologist for ANNOUNCING THAT I AM FAIR GAME.
You just cinched it up all nice and tight THANK YOU.
If I am FAIR GAME that’s just one more reason to add to my list of why I’m angry.
I HAD TO PAY UPFRONT. And never was told how long I had to evaluate them I foolishly thought it would be 3 months like my hearing aid but then the replacement audiologist basically dismissed me when I asked and said the time had come and gone.
MY MISTAKE THAT IT SEEMS I NEED TO OWN IS THAT I WAS A TRUSTING PERSON WHO BELIEVED MY AUDIOLOGIST NOT KNOWING IT WAS THE LAST TIME I WOULD SEE HER.
AND MY MISTAKE WAS COMING HERE TRYING TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
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The system says I didn’t write enough and messages me that what I wrote doesn’t seem like a complete sentence and won’t let me post until I write more.
SO THESE LAST FEW LINES BETWEEN THE XXXXX’S I was forced to write when I was already quite thru and fed up.
XXXXX
THANK YOU, KIND SIR OR MADAM for trying to be the voice of reason. I appreciate you very much for trying to understand the situation while a few behave more like vultures.
I should not have posted here because its all for naught. It hasn’t helped because I was frustrated and lost before and now more so. I am angry but NOT AT YOU.
Before anyone attacks me for being admittedly angry please consider the reasons for which you will need to read my experiences not just with audiologist but about everything in my life being turned upside down. My home of 30 years, my garden that I made into a beautiful place starting with nothing but weeds, all the wildlife and songbirds I loved and fed, are gone because of a summer of violence that was condoned as “peaceful protests”, are ALL GONE. I will never again hear the song of the beautiful little wren that came faithfully in the month of May every year. My family is not close by like they once were. I am overcome with emotions and its hard to sort them all out while being criticized and told I need to OWN MY PROBLEMS.
ANOTHER KIND SOUL WHO THINKS POSTING HERE HONESTLY MAKES ME FAIR GAME.
I can’t just write one sentence so I need fillers to satisfy the automatic censor program so I’ll copy and repeat again.
ANOTHER KIND SOUL WHO THINKS POSTING HERE HONESTLY MAKES ME FAIR GAME. I didn’t come here to be FAIR GAME.
Thank you for coming here not with any helpful suggestion but to see if you can strike a very advantageous deal monetarily for yourself, profiting from someone else’s misfortune and sorrow.
You don’t sound like any “Rev” I would care for.