Phonak Roger Select iN or Roger Pen iN: Which is better?

I found the following instructions for Marvels to install the new Roger iN devices.
Now i consider to Buy one till Phonak bring out one Cros M HA
It is only not clear to me what would be better in my Case The Microphone or the Select?
My case is that for example i want to hear a Person from the Bad side.
My Right Ear is the bad one so my wife for example sit right hand during i drive nearly no communication is possible with her . One Other case would be to follow conversations in the canteen wich is very noisy .
can pls somebody share what would be better in this cases?

What’s the microphone, the Roger Pen iN?

Yes The Roger Pen iN

The Select is much better in terms of newer technology. The Pen came out in 2013 so is quite old.

Ok Thank You very much for Your answer.
I have think that the Pen in is also new because this is the version compatible out of the box with the Marvels.
The Pen iN contain the firmware from the Roger Receiver what you can install in to your Marvels.
So it can be that the Pen Tech is old and only the Firmware install to the Marvel is the new feature for the iN versions of the Pen

Yes that’s correct.

This is a good You Tube video on the features of both the Pen and the Select.

Yes and exactly this makes me not sure which one to buy he say the Pen is good if you point to someone and the select is good whe its on the table i am afraid of constantly manually switch the mic on the select to choose the right person i have no clue how well automatic work when on a table multiple conversations going on

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I personally like the pointing mode myself but I also use the microphone on the table.

As the Pen sounded awful to me when on a table, it picked up SO much background noise, I bought myself a Roger Touchscreen Mic.

My audiologist said that the Touchscreen is better then the Pen for using it on the table and it also has the pointing mode.

The Touchscreen doesn’t pick up hardly any noise compared to the Pen but the Select is still loads better.

I’m new to the game. I got a Select iN to trial a couple of weeks ago.

I haven’t tried it, but I’m pretty sure that in a car you could have your spouse wear either a Select or Pen on a lanyard around her neck and you’d be able to hear her. I’m going to try that on my spouse next time we have an extensive road trip of any kind.

I found that the Select works pretty well on a table. I was at a dinner with eight people around the table, and a bunch more people at other tables. I could hear the people at my table quite well, so long as they spoke one at a time. The Select iN seemed to focus on the person currently speaking and switched back and forth around the table. However, if several people at my table were talking at once, then the Select got confused and hearing was less good. Still better than my HAs alone.

My understanding is that the pen is best if you want to spend your time pointing at people, and the Select is quite good at focusing on the appropriate person in a group if you don’t want to point. There are some directional capabilities in the Select, but I’ve yet to test them much.

It’s pretty neat technology. It’s sort of like someone is speaking directly into your ear. I should probably go bar hopping to give things a real test, but I’m not sure my spouse would approve. :wink: Perhaps I could just go to whatever bar had the good sense to hire my son for that night’s music.

Does the new Roger Pen iN communicate with the Marvel hearing aids via bluetooth instead of the T coil in the older version?

Harvey

I don’t know if it’s blue tooth per se, but it’s some kind of radio signal. It’s much different from T-coil.

When you get the Roger [pen/select] iN, the audiologist “inserts” receivers directly into your Marvels. The Marvels must be upgraded to the 2.0 version that came out last fall.

This means that the audiologist activates the existing hardware/software Roger compatibility by certifying (by use of a special activation device?) that the user is licensed by virtue of owning a Roger iN … right?

I think you’re right. They have something that looks like a little jeweler’s screwdriver and they use it to insert something that looks like a little, stubby pin into the HA, somewhere inside the battery compartment. This then essentially “licenses” one to use Roger devices (perhaps activates some kind of receiver in the HAs?).

You can then connect to multiple Roger devices once the insertion/licensing happens. I use my own Roger Select iN, and also poach from the feed of an older version of Roger Select that a woman at church makes my pastor wear. The woman at church, Janis, has an “old” Roger that requires she wear a myLink around her neck to receive the signals from her Roger that the pastor is wearing. The myLink then connects to her HAs. That connection might be essentially a T-coil one, I’m not sure. By virtue of my having 2.0 Marvel HAs, Janis’ feed goes directly into my HAs, no need for an intermediate device. I’m pretty sure my connection is not via T-coil. It’s pretty cool.

I have both. If I could only have one it would be the select because it can do almost everything the pen can do. But the pen is easier to use in some situations. The video posted above seems right on to me. Both are super.

Edit: I bought the select iN for full price but then the 1.1 pen for cheap on EBay.

Trying to make a quick decision regarding a Roger Pen iN and Roger Select iN because of EOFY specials. Any rapid thoughts appreciated.

I struggle in a mixed variety of settings and I’d probably have 3 uses.

  1. Use in a boardroom meeting settings where I’d place it in the centre of the table or closer to the other end to pick up distant participants more clearly.
  2. At a lecture or conference, where I’d probably try to place it on lectern (rather than as lanyard setting) as often there are numerous speakers every 30 minutes.
  3. In a noisy restaurant where I may struggle to follow a conversation particularly from a person across the table, or beyond the person next to me, or people on my right which is my worse side.

I’m leaning towards the Roger Pen but have some uncertainties. My questions for anyone who has the Roger Pen or perhaps has tried both Roger Pen and Roger Select:

  1. Does the Roger Pen work well in conference mode for settings 1 and 2 above. Would it work up to the 10 metres described? Does the battery actually last 8 hours? Would the Select have any advantages over the Pen e.g clearer or better sensitivity?

  2. Conversely in a very noisy restaurant/bar setting over dinner, would the Pen work better than the Select. Does the Pen work in my example above by simply pointing it handheld to the relevant speaker. I can imagine the conversation switching from person to person, and I worry about the Select just picking up lots of noise and also being prone on the table top to having food or drink dropped on it?

Thanks

In my experience my Select is better at reducing background noise, but the form factor of my Pen means I use it more often. Both are effective in small meetings (max 6 people, round or square table) but neither work well in a boardroom. In our boardroom (seats 22, one at each table head and 10 along each side) I need to use 2 networked Table Mic 2’s.

The problem with both the Select and Pen in the boardroom is there is no way to adequately capture all of the voices around the table using just a single device when combined with your hearing aid microphones. Inevitably the group in front of the Pen or Select is too loud and overwhelms the rest of the participants.

@jplkmaustralia

I tested both yesterday, sitting outside at the restaurant, a bit of light wind to help with crazy hot day (28C), cars were passing by on cobble road, occasionally kids yelling around.

Pen in table mode was almost useless - too much static noise, poor clarity. Table was like 80 x 160 cm, 4 of us. Pointed towards someone was a bit better, but poor in comparison to select. Lanyard I tried by holding, useless. I guess at 4 cm from mouth it would pick something, maybe.

Select on the other hand, table mode, awesome. Hands down. However for quiet speaker it really needs to be as close as possible, that was around 50-60 cm from that speaker mouth.

I try to connect them, with select connected first to my HA, and pen to select (so pen was lanyard). Mainly for testing the order, since lanyard pen just couldn’t do it.

Test at relatively quiet home, with fan between me and person speaking normal voice, maybe a bit quieter, pen caught him at max 2m, after that noise around overwhelmed it. At 2m I was something farther away from the top of the fan, but when fan was around the middle of the distance, pen didn’t catch voice anymore (so at roughly 2.5-3m was useless)

So, my conclusion - pen could reach more if it’s quiet (or a bit of noise behind you), but only in interview mode. Table mode has really short distance, like 50-60 cm and in my case a lot of static (or as I say when the quiet is unnaturally loud). Lanyard maybe in total quiet. But granted I didn’t try it with actual lanyard yet.

Select in light noise works perfectly. I didn’t yet test it in crowded restaurant, but whatever it can catch it’ll be better than I can anyway.

I don’t see any of them being able to catch sound at 10m distance. I mean that starts looking like espionage equipment :smiley:

My current decision is that I’ll buy select iN new to get the licenses/receivers and then buy used regular pen 1.1 (which i tested now anyway). I see some use of pen, but not 900 eur worth as is the price here for new one. Select is around 1000 eur. Even if I manage to beg for a bit of discount, used pens from USA with shipping is 150 eur, plus tax here, is still below 200. My fitter just can’t match that with new one, since I think he has to pay double or even triple that to phonak, I forgot exact numbers.

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Unfortunately as you know, these Roger mikes are so expensive. No way I can afford more than one as it all comes out of my pocket, no government or health insurance rebate.
I’m looking for the best all-rounder. Not sure if Select or Pen is better.

In a boardroom setting, are people more than 2 metres away simply inaudible or just soft. Is there some way of placing at the far end of table and does the app allow balancing Roger Pen/Select for distant people, while using HA microphone for closer people. If so does Select or Pen have a distinct advantage in what it will pick up?

Do you have any experience with the Pen or Select in noisy restaurant settings?

The one distinct advantage of Pen I see is that I could point it at people discretely in interview mode in a noisy restaurant. But does it do well for this? Otherwise I would get the Select.

Thanks greatly.

From your post I’m concluding.

You think Select does better job than Pen.

Lanyard mode for Pen needs to be really close to speaker. Is it any better in interview mode, pointing to speakers across the table in noisy restaurant? Can the Select mimic the Pen by pointing it at someone in any way?

You think table mode really pushing it for anyone more than 2m away. But does Select work better over longer distance in table mode?

Where does one look for used Pens in USA. Will the old ones pair with a new Marvel with integrated receiver like the new iN ones?

I don’t think, I heard :joy:

I see I didn’t mark my paragraphs precisely, and which gadget I comment is burried in words. I’ll rephrase.

Pen table mode, in restaurant outside, useless. At home in relatively quiet, picked up up to 50 cm then not.
Pen interview at home up to 2m ok. Outside in restaurant couldn’t pick up the quiet speaker from what, 10-20 cm from her mouth, and was definitely less useful than select when I tried to catch other speakers. I’d say it does give a bit of boost but significantly less than select. Lanyard mode completely useless. I couldn’t hear my tapping on the mic itself. Even 5cm close to speaker mouth didn’t show difference.

Select table mode, 50 cm for the same quiet speaker same setup outside at restaurant, picked her up. Bigger distance not. But this person speaks insanely quietly. Her husband confirms he cannot get her, and he has good hearing :joy: other people caught fine.

For the first time I could really follow the talk we had with the same people. Yes, still with a lot of effort but exhaustion was lesser and I definitely understood like almost 90% of things. Jokes didn’t work quite well. With previous aids at restaurants it was a nightmare, I had to lip read, I didn’t follow even 20% of overall convo, and were completely exhausted. At our place in quiet was a bit better, like 50% success. But still, this with mics and new aid even outside was impressive.

From the point of feeling in the loop, this combo is clear win for me (m90 + select).

I didn’t test select lanyard mode.

I don’t think I’ll need that mode that much. I’m not keen to hanging 1000 eur worth gadget onto random people necks :joy: and in meetings I expect quiet environment anyway. I mean, if they start yelling I don’t plan to listen anyway :joy:

I checked how their network works, but since pen in lanyard was useless, only information I got from that test is that select can stay in table mode if he’s the primary.

In quiet, I’d expect pen to be useful. But restaurants, for me, nope. Select is way to go.

However I do have very rare, and hard to fit hearing loss type, so it’s really hard to help me, plus I wear open fit so I on purpose lose low frequencies (otherwise they distort speech that much that I’m below 50 wrs in quiet). However if I can get that much from select in all those conditions, it’s definitely worth it.

Pen maybe helps people with high frequency hearing loss better, to me it creates too much noise for high tones to be useful in even little noise.

And mind you, this wasn’t that noisy. I do have one good ear for comparison.

But with select I could turn my bad ear towards the table looking at something someone pointed out and still feel included in the conversation. I can’t confirm comprehension of everything, because my best WRS is 60-70, so that’s bad, but I definitely could catch some words.

Select in table mode, I’d say distance from mouths were 50cm for quieter speaker and 150cm or a bit more for normal speaker towards a bit louder.
If it’s quiet room and people take turns, speaking in normal voice, I’d expect it can catch somewhat further. Don’t have numbers yet though. But one round table for 6-8, I’d expect it covers in quiet.