Phonak Roger Select iN or Roger Pen iN: Which is better?

Hearing Aids
#21

For marvel you need at least one iN device to get those receivers/licences (or 2x roger X devices and transfer the receiver/licence from them, but it’s usually more expensive path).
After you have hardware activated by that transfer, you can use whichever additional roger mic (non edu) you want.

So my advice would be to buy either select iN + regular pen 1.1 OR pen 1.1 iN and regular select.
And then any other just regular ones (table mic 2, more pens etc)

Since prices regular vs iN often differ to include price for those 2 rrceivers that come with it.

Regular pen 1.1 used - ebay, just search ‘phonak r9ger pen 1.1’. There’s two sellers from I think illinois, have similar names, I think rashi something both, 100% positive score, similar prices, @Zebras had recommended one based on her positive experience, I can’t remember from the top of my head which one, but they both look good.

#22

Just did small test. Home with bg noise from the cars on the street (roughly around 40 db), select in table mode, I could hear that mic is picking up my hubby’s voice from around 3m and I could use it, even if it was really faint, I had a feeling I get some input even with him at 5m from the mic. Not to mention hearing my slippers rubbing the floor when I move them, they were like 50cm distance (mic was on low coffee table).

So, definitely good tech. Pen couldn’t do more than 50cm the other day when I tried. And even in interview mode, I couldn’t hear rubbing fingers after around 50cm distance.

Hope this helps :wink:

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#23

Invaluable info. I think this makes the Select more likely what I will get. Can I just check you are using both Select iN and Pen iN?

#24

Nope, select iN, and pen 1.1, regular version. Because they don’t import pen iN in Germany, official phonak representative’s answer was that market is too small. :woman_facepalming:
I even saw someone in Switzerland saying they can’t buy pen iN there for the same reason. Yes Phonak is Swiss brand :rofl:

On the other hand, there’s really no point in having more than one iN device - you need licence/roger receiver only once per HA, not per mic. So you get 2 with one iN device and you’re good to go, all other devices can be regular ones.

Of course if you’re only thinking about single device, then pen iN vs select iN dilemma makes sense, and I’d choose pen if my only use case would be in quiet and aiming over some distance (eg meetings) or in corridors where there’s echo, or outside when pen in hanging on someone. If there’s remote chance that I’d use it more on the table and especially in restaurants, I’d go for select.

However, chances are that you’ll want more of them. I think they’re like pokemons, you get the urge to have them all :rofl:

Route previous to the releasing Marvels was that you need to buy additional HW called roger X which is then connected to you HA (through additional HW called DAI shoe/boot) or your streaming device (if you have non phonak HA or HA that doesn’t have DAI boot available). Or you can skip roger X and buy roger mylink instead which is then using Tcoil to connect to your HAs, of course, if your HAs have Tcoil in them.

If your market doesn’t have pen iN available and you only want pen and nothing else, then you have to go through this previous route no matter if you have marvels. Mind you, in Germany price for one roger X (and you need two if you want sound to come to both HAs) is around 600-700 eur, pen is around 700-800, ordinary AND iN select are both around 1000 (don’t ask me, don’t tell them :rofl: in UK difference between the two is 2x licence/roger X price, which there is roughly 300 gbp), roger mylink is around 700 eur. Tcoil sound is lower quality than of the roger receiver on DAI shoe which is somewhat lower quality from roger receiver in marvels, as far as I’m reading around. All three are with almost no lag compared to streamer or BT solution (like I saw if you use resound multimic and roger X plugged in it, you can feel sound coming at different speeds if you have open fit, or like me, one good ear without HA). Crazy.

User @RogerPM mentioned that better distance (mic to HA) which can be seen in datasheet of iN mics is related to built in receivers in Marvel HAs. And iN pen doesn’t have BT because Marvels have integrated BT (on the same chip that’s for roger receiver btw), so for phone calls you’re supposed to use HA to accept/reject calls as opposed to BT regular pen where you do that with buttons on the pen. However, regular pen and Marvel HA hate each other at the moment you turn on BT on the pen. Hate means that turning on BT on pen, no matter if they’re paired to phone (paired, not only connected), HA will go crazy with turning autosense on every 2 seconds, which is accompanied with those beeps. In other words, if you buy Select iN and regular pen, glue those call/BT buttons to not accidentally click them :rofl:

You can find in my previous posts where I tested what’s happening (question was would it be possible to use pen as BT mic together with marvel HA - answer is clear no).

Granted I didn’t test pen iN since I can’t get my hands on it, but beside longer range than regular pen 1.1 I didn’t saw any other difference about quality, from phonak’s data sheets. Pen from first gen had issues with poor signal if HA and mic aren’t in line of sight (like if speaker turns away from you while having pen around their neck). Regular pen 1.1 doesn’t have those issues :slight_smile:

I believe only reason iN gadgets exist is because of that issue with BT and HA going crazy. Nothing else from specifications points to any difference in performance between regular and iN versions. And then they added licence/roger receivers in them for convenience and marketing, like ‘look, now you don’t need anything else’ (but we won’t give proper information to our dispensers how the heck those licences/receivers now work :rofl:).

#25

Last question. Does the audiologist need to link up the HA to the iN device? I’m buying online for first time, not with my regular audiologist who says they can’t match price. It’s not as simple as pressing connect button is it?

Both Select iN and Pen iN available. Glad to know I only need to get one iN device.

Seems the Roger licence seems to “unlock” that functionality in the hearing aid and so you only need it once.

I think I’ll go Select. Both you and Alvin seem to suggest it may work better. I’d mainly use it for work for attending conferences (on lectern) and in meeting settings. I can cope if I can’t use the Select with handheld functionality in a restaurant (but maybe on table it might be OK, if nobody spills their drink on it), but I’d be disappointed if a Pen didn’t work very well on table mode in a meeting or lectern.

Checking out Ebay US and Pen 1.1 seem to be about $100-150 USD + international postage for pre-owned. Don’t know if these are reputable sellers. So I guess options to get it if I really want it.

#26

Not much more complicated than that, you need a small wire to click the hole (opened paper clip will do). However it can be a bit tricky, I think there’s very short window of opportunity within the time from turning on HA when they’re able to link, so be patient and fast. I think hardest part was to not touch touch part of the mic while clicking on the bottom :rofl:

Instructions are here

Scream if you’ll need help :wink:

Start with checking the number of receivers/licences in the select iN. You should get two green lights. Then transfer one, check the number of licences. You should have one red and one green light. That means you’re done with one HA :slight_smile:

Then, after ‘licences’ are transferred, you need to connect those three (HAs and select), for that you just that button on the bottom, with a link embossed on it.

I keep saying licences because hardware is already there, software is already there, so it’s just a matter of activating it eg having key. And phonak insists on calling that roger receiver, calling hardware roger direct, having both hw and sw as ‘marvels are roger ready’. If I remembered correctly. Why they use receiver for such different things (speakerphone in ear and roger licence), I have no clue. Looks like no one there ever installed legal Windows with a key :rofl: I wonder what’s next that’s gonna be called receiver :rofl:

To cover other questions. Yes, you need licences only once. However, they can be transferred back to select iN from marvels, for example if you want new HA. Don’t ask me what happens if your marvels broke and you didn’t have the opportunity to get them back in select iN device. Let’s hope phonak can sort that one out.

You probably don’t want handheld anything in restaurants, but want to eat in peace. Select covers that perfectly. I put mine on tumbled over ashtray and just kept the biggest box out of the way (with knifes and whatnot) because waitress put it directly beside my mic :rofl:. Although with very clumsy people around I’d probably think of something else. Also, I have a cover for it, I believe it’s for headphones, round hard foam thing with zipper all around, so mic was on that which was on ashtray, that gave it around 5cm elevation in total. Glass turned over could give even more if needed.

From direct spilling or spitting in laughter I’m not sure there’s help, but since it’s so good, maybe it can work from the small plastic ziplock bag?

Tested just now, works like a charm (test was with rubbing fingers from at least 20cm distance, no problem).

My problem with pen is that it just lets all sounds in, which I don’t find useful. Select has good noise control. Plus, let’s not forget automatic focusing on who is speaking now that select has, plus ability to turn off some area (like your direction for example of you don’t need your voice that loud).

Also, you get one magnet strip or something, to put select onto someone, like lapel mic mode instead of lanyard mode with the necklace thing. I found that to the limited ability I can put that magnet strip on mic, and around my finger and point around. No too sudden movement though.

However, you can’t point ‘down’ like you can with pen, because select is primarily table mic and if its gyroscope detects too much elevation, it’ll just switch into lanyard mode.

My main reason for wanting pen is that I can point it down, eg I’m standing at the doctor’s office and nurse is behind a counter but sitting down. Select can’t help with that, I’ve tried. However, that single feature isn’t worth 900 eur to buy new, for me. Neither with that interview beam, because I can simulate interview with select on my finger. It’ll look odd, but everything will look odd anyway and if my goal is to understand and my speaking partner’s as well, then who cares how it looks.

So if your source of sound is upward from the position of the mic, select will cover that really well. You can also tilt select to some degree, but don’t overdo it to not change mode :smiley:

I saw them mostly from 2 sellers, both have similar names (I think both have rashi), and both have 100% positives and are long time members. From one (I think it’s asm-rashi) Zebras had ordered with only good experience. I’ll pick one of them based on who has the red pen :rofl:
But to me, they said delivery time is sometime between August and October, so I won’t be able to give you any timely feedback on them :rofl:

Alvin mentioned me somewhere that for pen to do better as table mic, some hard surface to lie it down is better than holding in hand. My test was in hand. But some my tests with select were also from my hand and it definitely worked better.

Plus, select is newer tech. So maybe pen 2.0 will be something really impressive, we’ll see :wink:

#27

One thing in favor of Select is that it also can replace the TC Connector. So if you want the TV Connector the Select can be used for the same function.

#28

All the roger stuff, select-pen-clipmic, can replace the tv connect.

I have them all, plus 2 tv connects, plus the small phonak Bluetooth mic. They all work well in different situations. I probably use the pen the most because the form-factor makes it the most versitile. But once you have the select iN the others can be had easily and cheaply.

For most here i suspect that the partner mic is probably the most useful, and affordable, add-on.

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