I don’t have double tap. I was saying for what it is used (looking at target sw), question was if there is a way to switch sources. No.
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I suspect you are right Blacky. I will know more in a week. The system needs to ‘hear’ the double tap (rechargeable 70 or 90) and then interpret that based on what mode it is in. I am just beginning to see why Phonak implemented things the way that they did.
Actually it’s ‘feel’. Motion sensor. 
Yes, I’ve seen it earlier, but thanks;)
I found one review that covers a bit more detail about since stuff than others I’ve seen
Like I didn’t notice so far where is that dynamic noise control and few other stuff.
I was at my fitter today, he tried a bit tweaking for that distortion on non aided ear, and gave me some tips what I can try further.
About feedback, compared to marvels, from what we could see is that with open dome now they just hit the limit. So I’ll try vented one, but I’m not sure that’ll work for me (I went open dome because of distortion in sound, but caused by my cohlea not aids).
He said that usual time for updates is every 4-6 months, so he wouldn’t expect something this or next month.
He also said that if sound quality is same or poorer, he’d go with marvels. But of course I have to decide for myself if features outweigh the annoyances I’ve found so far. App that won’t connect after several tries is currently the biggest one. No matter if outdoor or indoor.
What is definitely better is BT connection stability outdoors. I left phone on the ground and went walking around it, swivelling my head and whatnot, rock solid connection for streaming.
I was thinking, did anyone tried remote control with the marvels, is it connecting, is it faster than with the app?
I’ve read that insanely long marvel thread and I’ve seen that one update made app connection faster.
Paradises are noticeably slower with huge amount of refusing to connect even after several tries. Marvels did that, by feeling like once every few days, but second try would be enough.
Paradises I have a feeling that only few times a day they actually connect.
Since I have need for separate volume, depending on the youtube channel even, getting to the app matters, since there I can split the volume.
So it is annoying when one side is too loud and another I can’t hear.
I got a lesson from my SO about what early adopter really means, since I’ve never been one, so some things are clearer to me. I’m still not happy about it 
And I need to figure out steps for bt with 2 devices.
So, if you connect to two, and stream from one, then another, then first, then second, all good.
But problem is after you say, ok, I want to disconnect bt source 1 and just listen bt source 2. When after a while you want to swap them, that’s pain in the ass to figure out right steps to make it connect back to source 1 and disconnect from source 2.
So far I haven’t managed to do it without restarting the HAs.
It behaves like, once disconnected it just can’t reconnect.
And no, I don’t have to unpair, just kill bt on all sources, kill HA, start bt and start HAs. Stupid.
I mean, I’d expect they learned how to do it from marvel issues and do not have to repeat them again.
Maybe I discover some repeatable and less cumbersome steps. With marvels was enough to kill the bt from the source you don’t want and it would connect to the other one.
I have a feeling that paradises are more aggressive in asking for connection. Since I’ve noticed that when I disconnect the aids but leave bt on on phone, trying to reconnect with computer, and then when that doesn’t work, I shut down aids and restart, they’ll connect to the phone.
I think marvels didn’t do that.
I have to check, I’m not sure anymore.
And currently I have in my possession marvels 90, paradises 90 in both battery and rechargeable models.
And two weeks to figure out which one of those three I’m keeping. Officially almost 18k eur worth of goods more than my SOs motorcycle
Any help what to compare directly or test to help me decide, is appreciated. Especially about bt, before marvels I didn’t have any similar bt device (just set and forget watch), so I definitely could be missing something.
Also, if you’d like to know something that comes from direct comparison between those three models, let me know, I’ll try to do it if I can /have time.
I don’t use voice assistants, so I’m not keen on testing that. I haven’t find a purpose for them in my life yet.
If they’d be able to change HA program or volume or noise setting, then I’d have something useful. But I think that such feature is left for next generation… Unless I don’t know something about assistants?
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Thank you Blacky for your input. I will be following. BT feature is a biggie for me. I’m not clear on the issue with notifications and having to disconnect BT to get notifications etc. I understand it is an issue with Marvels and Paradise. Maybe you could clarify what the process is. I do get notifications like from a text, or a weather alert. I mostly have these shut off as they drive me crazy. If I had notifications shut off, would then the issue of BT disconnecting go away? Thanks
Maybe it is the way my M90s are set up but I don’t have any of the BT problems others have described. I have tiles, external speakers, security cameras, and my HAs all paired with my Macbook, Iphone, Ipad, and Samsung Android tablet. I NEVER turn BT off on any of them. I do DISCONNECT my HAs when I quit using one. My HAs then automatically connect when I start using a new device. Sometimes, but very rarely, I do have to select the HAs from the BT menu.
@Psych1
Yeah, marvels work like that for me, just disconnect from the sources I don’t want. And if I want again, disconnect form currently connected and connect to one I want.
However reconnect as I call this use case, paradise cannot handle. Or I haven’t found a way how to do it reliably and fast. So far I have to disconnect everything, shut down HAs, even turn off BT on the computer, then turn on BT on the computer and turn on HAs and finally it will allow connection.
Maybe it’s computer BT issue 
I really wasn’t taking notes with exact steps 
@Sequoia_Woman
Some notifications even though turned off on phone will still kick in on HAs, or in general some sounds, like one game I play, everything is muted, but HAs still catch it and switch to streaming even though there’s no sound. But android send the intent with ‘sending sound, it’s muted’ and HAs are obviously catching that intent… So it depends on the app sending notifications what exactly they send. For example I can’t recall if I get any message notifications (which is good, I have that all turned off anyway), but when I send the message using telegram app, then I hear it kicks on the streaming, even though I have ‘send sound’ muted…
Phone call on WhatsApp comes into my ear.
But I also do have an app that I think catches notifications, for the watch I’m using. What I mean to say - I forgot if I muted all apps one by one or using that watch app and it propagates all around.
I do have heavy ‘no sound no pop up’ policy all around my phone and when I setup it, I kill everything I can but I forgot which I’ve killed using what.
One way to kill the streaming part (all notifications as well) is to use that app I’ve linked, and turn off streaming part of BT connection until you need it. App just gives widget to do that in less clicks than when going through the menus.
Phone call will pass through and will have own sound. Tested on WhatsApp calls.
On paradises.
I forgot if marvels were ringing for phone call, especially since mostly was I who was calling.
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Ok, I think I’ve figured out what steps have to be done in order to connect to another BT device - patience.
I clicked connect, nothing. I turned BT on the computer off and on and clicked connect and went onto reading something. Then noticed it connected.
I’m definitely not patient person, but it seems that ‘die waiting’ is the missing step 
Will check more.
Also, managed to experience one stream hiccup while outside, so it’s not rock rock solid, but it’s definitely better than marvels which would have a bunch hiccups in situations where I’ve so far tested paradises.
Phone call outside with some noise went smooth for me, and the other side didn’t ask me to repeat things or something, but I didn’t asked about quality to check (wasn’t a friend but some service). I don’t speak loud on the phone I’d say.
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Recent phone OS update has broken the Phonak app for both android and apple. Is that one of your problems?
I doubt it’s that. I just checked, last OS update is from a month ago, paradises I started a week ago.
I’ll test marvels again to compare.
But yeah, there is so many opportunities where it can go wrong 
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An early accounting. I took delivery of the P90-RT this morning. They sound very natural to me which was a question since I am transitioning from Oticon Opn. Pairing to Android 10 phone and also to Windows 10 was smooth and uneventful. Both pairings stay active at the same time. And the hand-off from one to the other seems seamless. And quick. Double tap mutes a stream. I have not tried other uses of double tap (such as answer an incoming call. I tend not to answer incoming traffic. I have heard rumors that the Paradise will announce an address book caller’s name. That might be interesting). I have not configured the TV Connector as yet. It will also take some time for Phonak to build my ear mold. Once I have the mold tweaked we will take a new sound booth measurement and then apply those values with Real Ear. With the power domes I am using temporarily, the feedback manager is limiting receiver output. That should change downstream. We shall see. I cannot actually measure processor performance but my sense is that the Paradise might be smoother (similar to video at 120 frames per second as opposed to 60 or cellulose 24). The processor is faster but this could be my imagination. Here I am 3 hours in and I frankly have no sense that I am using hearing aids. How good is that! I have been on this assisted hearing trajectory for 15 years. First time I have had this kind of positive reaction so quickly. And I have used the same facility (a university medical center) and the same audiologist the entire time. As an aside, I went with a slim tip mold with a retainer. The c-shell might be a more effective device but a receiver cannot be changed by the audiologist or me. The slim tip is a simple remove and replace. And such things do happen.
Ciao
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Would love to see how this competes with the Marvels.
Would upgrade if motion sensor technology makes a difference.
I returned marvels. Because they provided same sound quality / issues like paradises.
streaming
Fun thing is that until I was comparing them back to back on the same video stream on the same sentences, I was convinced that marvel did the better job, and was disappointed with paradises which you probably remember.
Nope. It was only a bit quieter on marvels so distortion for my normal ear wasn’t that noticeable.
I noticed that issue only when streaming so I’ve only tested them for streaming.
And I even forgot which I had in my ears from all those swapping and couldn’t tell the difference. So yeah, same stuff.
S or P receivers, doesn’t matter. Open fit domes!
Distortion I complain about is, I think now, from the fact that those speakers are just tinny. And hearing them with normal ear and comparing with some in ear headphones, HAs just lose.
Speech is definitely sharper. But I think that’s exactly what I can distortion, every word has that vibration. Even if I close the ear canal with finger, it’s a bit better (at least it can be less loud so that helps).
Not to mention that I hear when podcast speakers inhale. So everything is louder.
However I don’t use them for the beauty of the sound in my normal ear, I use them to have same type of signal come into my brain at the same time from both sides so that my brain gets the best comprehension possible.
And for that, they do excellent job.
feedback
Another moment, yes, they’re the same.
Ok not on the same settings, but both squeak when I have my hand cupped around the ear, both don’t squeak if my hand is flat and in some specific angle. I didn’t test with kissing on cheeks with someone.
Both don’t squeak when I put my hat, cap or whatnot on or over my ears.
Both are definitely winter approved.
Widex would squeak with some hats
other differences
In every day usage they are similar. But paradises have a few pluses I’ve noticed.
Some kid was screaming in the bus when I had paradises and it didn’t pierce my brain.
Screeching from train on tracks that aren’t straight also doesn’t pierce my brain. With marvels piercing was here the moment I stop streaming.
If I remember correctly
Anyhow I feel that my brain is definitely less attacked with paradises. I live beside highway basically (very fast and loud city street) and even though both aids were loud, marvels were louder when I put my finger to close the ear canal, so I’d definitely say that paradises handle annoying noise better.
And I’ll keep tweaking to see if I can improve that ‘distortion’ for streaming.
What I like is that the button is definitely easier to click.
Opening battery is similarly hard on both (battery size 13).
And bt outside is definitely more to the rock solid side. I did experience hiccups, but compared to marvels where they were so often that you start working around them and walk on eggshells, paradises surprise me when they lose connection that one time during the whole trip. It’s really easy to become used to steady connection.
Riding my bike, no wind issues, clear hearing of the traffic from any side, so good localisation for me. Didn’t try streaming or phone call yet. Didn’t try marvels in that situation bc I got my bike back after I returned marvels. But marvels while walking also gave me good localisation for sounds around me and no wind issues (I tested those by thinking I’m a dog by putting my head outside of the window in driving car + driving in cabrio).
And I don’t see anything that you can modify for that dynamic noise cancelling. In the article I’ve previously linked they said that only in noise / very loud noise you’ll get the option in the app. You won’t. It has only the same noise cancelling button as always, nothing connected to the dynamic.
I did put dynamic in target to higher than defaults while keeping regular at the default iirc, and marvels had only regular at the default iirc.
So I’d say that this dynamic definitely does something good even if I can’t see it in action in the app.
With both I can hear my cat purring when he lies on my bad ear, so that’s good.
Now I have to compare with rechargeable versions, for the sensor.
And as @VinceJ said, I definitely don’t feel like I have them. I do feel when I remove them but when outside I definitely have the tick to touch the wires to check if they’re still inside. Especially when I put on my ‘masks’ which are those buffs.
No, they never tried to get out, I can even remove them from my ear and let them hang around and they won’t go out, but I think since they’re so expensive and still not mine (not paid) I’m a bit anxious
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So is it fair to say that differences between Marvel and Paradise are subtle? I can see if one connects to multiple streaming devices on a daily basis that the connectivity improvements might make a big difference
I’d say so, yeah.
Maybe that noise cancelling for background noise is really a bit better and not a figment of my imagination. But that’s only hearing related difference in those hearing aids that I’ve noticed so far.
In short, if you’re happy with marvels, stick with them. If you’re happy with hearing but not connectivity, maybe you can justify the switch. If you’re not happy with the sound, no need to think about switching, it’s the same thing.
At least battery paradise vs marvels.
After I test the rechargeable paradise I’ll update with information if I can even notice that feature which sensors bring. Wearing open fit I don’t expect much, but I’ll try to remember testing with fingers in my ears to plug that up 
For my case of having just laptop and phone for streaming, and since I’m the one who calls people when it suits me (we usually arrange calls among friends, or I call some service), it’s definitely predictable for me.
Yeah, having them both connected is potentially nice, but when weird notifications start, I turn off that source anyway. Yesterday I’ve realised that when I on meetup.com put that meetup into google calendar, and when it starts loading gcalendar, bastard takes the stream with silence, but it still takes it. Why oh why
And it seems more steady bt connection when streaming outside.
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@Blacky Do you notice any sound quality difference overall with the Paradise vs the Marvels. Not so much in streaming but in day to day use. What level of aids are you using with the paradise?
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I haven’t noticed anything else beside maybe a bit better noise cancelling for paradises. Maybe.
I tested streaming intensively because I was convinced that there’s huge difference between them. Nope. Just bad memory I mean, I wrongly remembered that marvels were so much better in those several hours between my last stream with marvels and first stream with paradises.
Both are level 90.
That’s interesting! Which provider have you seen them sell at? Specsavers?