Phonak Infinio Sphere vs Oticon Intent – quantitative word recognition testing

[DaleM1]

@jim_lewis

Using the same word list over again does seem like a test weakness; the best test would be double-blind with the words randomized between each test, if not a completely new set of words for each test, i.e., ideally, you should get someone else to make up the recordings and the written-out checklist of what the actual words were in the recordings. Still, a very interesting experiment, which roughly jives with what Phonak claims will be the improvement in understanding, IIRC.

I agree. In my first comparison attempts, I generated a spreadsheet with over 500 words and then wrote a function to generate random subsets of 50 words. Then I had a live speaker read them to me. According to my audiologist, the community frowns on spoken tests (because they are non-repeatable), and I didn’t want to ask my friends to record a bunch of lists. Nevertheless, I do think the test was fair – because of the order of the tests, there was a bias in favor of the Oticons.

[Misterref78]

Personally, I don’t think that the Sphere is that much better than the Intent. From my point of view they are both equal but I dare say I understand better with the Intent.

[Bimodal_user]

@Misterref78 , I don’t see your audiogram, but from what I know, Oticon’s receivers are very good at amplifying higher frequencies, reportedly better than Phonak’s. Maybe that makes a difference.

[Misterref78]

Sorry I tried also to put it in the Audigram like you did, but I cannot see the place to put it in, I am directed to another page.

And yes this may be, and I also said for me, because we also heard only good things from ppl that works for them.

[Bimodal_user]

How to add your hearing test / audiogram to Hearing Tracker

Just updated our page for adding hearing tests to the forum. Make sure you are logged in Go to My Hearing Tests You will see the page below Enter your audiogram and click the save button When you come back to the forum, you should have a headphone icon on your avatar and an audiogram on your profile. Thanks! [image] If you already have a hearing test on file, you will see the page below. Edit your current test or click the button “Add Hearing Test” to add a new test. [image]

Which Phonak receivers did you use? P? And what acoustic coupling? Power domes?

[DaleM1]

That’s an interesting perspective. If they are equal for you but you understand speech better with the Sphere, then there must be things you like better with the Intent. For me, the Intents are better for music, which is a high priority for me, but not as high as having a flowing conversation in a noisy environment. I started another thread on Sphere vs Intent for music.

[Misterref78]

Thanks with the directlink I went to the hearing test section.

I use P receivers and have slimtip with 1mm vent.

I cannot say that my hearing is better with Phonak, overall I would say that the Oticon is better for me. I am sure I have to adjust the Phonak more but so far I am not really happy with them.
For me the Spherics is not better than the Edge+ in Starkey, it sounds more like the speech in noise program from Resound Nexia. I think I like more the normal sound arround me than possible pushing speech from everywhere.

[user246]

It does, even Dr. Cliff mentions Intents tent to match targets better out the box - I suppose it might be
due to the Open sound optimizer , it doesn’t imply its better aid- rather than in the absence of proper verification Itents would probably get closer to match targets.

[Bimodal_user]

Okay, I though it’s because of better frequency response from receivers from Otocon. Phonak’s receiver responses for example:

[Um_bongo]

Unlikely that there’s much physical difference between the receivers. Cross reading a few threads here, how Phonak traditionally handles high gain in receivers vs Oticon might be more of an issue. Perhaps there’s a better final comparison circuit that stops the receiver becoming unstable/clipping/saturated in the Oticon.

My pet Theory always used to be that because Phonak always used some frequency shifting/squeezing in their gain (FBM) management to achieve higher drive levels (and Acti-Vents), they could never use a very high resolution input/final output comparison to retain final sound quality.

I’m not sure if the issue runs through the Sphere line, but it sounds like that. I expect someone is currently reading this in Switzerland and we’ll see firmware updates before Christmas.

[Bimodal_user]

Thanks for your professional input (pun non-IntenTed)

@Um_bongo

My pet Theory always used to be that because Phonak always used some frequency shifting/squeezing in their gain (FBM) management to achieve higher drive levels (and Acti-Vents), they could never use a very high resolution input/final output comparison to retain final sound quality.

However, what about users who don’t use frequency lowering/SoundRecover2 and ActiveVent?

“Resolution” - you mean sampling rate? Or spectral fidelity?

Do you think this is an issue, for which reason is more likely due to firmware than hardware? Interesting.

@Um_bongo

I’m not sure if the issue runs through the Sphere line, but it sounds like that. I expect someone is currently reading this in Switzerland and we’ll see firmware updates before Christmas

Perhaps @Michael_Phonak could read it.

[Um_bongo]

@Bimodal_user

1.However, what about users who don’t use frequency lowering/SoundRecover2 and ActiveVent?

2.“Resolution” - you mean sampling rate? Or spectral fidelity?

1.It’s not turning on the Frequency Lowering function, it’s inherent pitch shifting (frequency lowering) which they’ve (Phonak) always done. It’s why there’s always been some issues around music reproduction, unless the AutoSense has detected there’s music present.

(Edit: Like driving a Mercedes with the traction control ‘off’. Except it isn’t, not fully.)

2. Sorry I meant Spectral Fidelity - in essence, (as close to) retaining the integrity of the original in the reproduction - or why people still like analogue Amplifiers, with no sampling delays, retained proportionality of loudness growth etc.

[Michael_Phonak]

@Bimodal_user

could read it

Haha thanks for the trust. But I must admit I am not sure if I understand the real question…