Phonak Infinio Sphere I90 Review (Another One!)

[Ryan_D]

I will try watching some home movies to give an update there. I can tell you that playing some computer games with speakers, I did notice that they were trying to dull the sound down as if it were background noise. I’m 99% sure that this is more of a noise reduction/compression setting thing rather than a Phonak/Sphere thing. Maybe some others with more experience with Phonak can chime in. It’s my one big pain point with these but even just messing with turning the noise reduction to 0 in the app seemed to make that stop.

I’m coming from the Oticon world where there isn’t much noise reduction, if at all, so I prefer to just hear things as they are. The Phonaks feel a little aggressive in this area but I thought the same thing with the KS10 when I tried those. Should just be a fine tune issue.

[Ryan_D]

100% I got 3 years out of my Oticons before the batteries needed to be replaced. I read some Phonak docs when these first came out that showed how many battery cycles you got before you had decline in the charge and I think they were claiming something like 4 years. I can’t exactly remember. But with any rechargeable, the batteries will need to be changed at some point. One of the things I hate about this trend to move everything to rechargeable but it’s a small inconvenience for something that happens infrequently.

[PeterH]

@Ryan_D

I will try watching some home movies to give an update there. I can tell you that playing some computer games with speakers, I did notice that they were trying to dull the sound down as if it were background noise. I’m 99% sure that this is more of a noise reduction/compression setting thing rather than a Phonak/Sphere thing

I’d go along with this. I used “Music” in my last visit to the cinema. I felt that the compression in the APD fitting software kept the volumes pretty well. The louds weren’t too loud and the quiets were audible. Also, noise reduction didn’t cut in, to take sounds away. I can’t see the Sphere chip helping here at all, it would surely just get confused.

[Ryan_D]

I’ve tried listening to youtube videos of people talking in noise and cranked it up. It doesn’t trigger the sphere mode turning on. So there’s something going on in the model that is able to tell the difference between people talking and a recording of them talking. Maybe it is different in a theater but I couldn’t get it to swap over by “tricking” them.

[Bimodal_user]

@Ryan_D

Can you run that mode all day? No. Does that really matter? I don’t think so. I can’t imagine many situations where I would actually need 4+ hours of this being on 100% of the time. Maybe a long wedding is the exception here but even that is debatable

@JordanK , this is possibly about you

@Ryan_D

These are trials so I don’t have my molds and was fitted with power domes. I had a pretty hard time hearing my wife when the group behind us started one of their wine induced screaming matches BUT if I plugged my ears with my fingers to simulate having my ears blocked off by a mold, I could hear her great. So I think it’s super important to stress that the more sound that naturally comes into your ears because of your mold/dome type, the less benefit you’re going to get from these in this very specific type of situation.

Yes, the proper earmold is a key issue, about which I read a great deal recently. My cShell with Phonak AOV vent gives me great sound quality, but at the expense of directionality and dynamic noise cancellation due to the 2.5 mm diameter of the vent (which is surprisingly large).

There is a screen of the size comparison (biggest vs. smallest rechargeable). For me, the large size isn’t a problem. My Paradise 90-RT is so small and wobbles on the cable so that I have difficulty using its rocker switch. My Bolero V70-P, which is chunkier in width, is perfectly comfortable.

EDIT:

Better size comparison picture:

Phonak Audéo Sphere

[PXL_20240821_131513177] The image was posted by an audiologist on a German forum as a comparison. At the end is the Audeo Sphere, and next to it is the Audeo Infinio which does not have the Deepsonic chip.

[PeterH]

@Ryan_D

One of the things I hate about this trend to move everything to rechargeable but it’s a small inconvenience for something that happens infrequently.

Cellphones and Tablets started this trend. Surely a self replaceable rechargeable battery is possible. Like my: Drill, Saw, Vacuum Cleaner, Drone, Camera? For all these, if a battery starts to fail, I buy another, and I can fit it myself. I can also carry spare charged batteries. I look forward to this time.

[CombatWombat]

I had a similar experience when testing the Lumity. It only worked when I used multiple devices, with a recording of a person talking directly in front of me, and other devices playing background noise on either side.

While trying out various options (Airpods, various OTC devices, etc.), I used to go to a crowded cafeteria-style food court, play an audiobook on my ipad’s speakers, and see how well the device isolated the narrator’s voice. When I tried this with the Lumities, I was initially frustrated because it just wouldn’t work at all. Then I realized it had focused on the group of people talking at the next table, who I was directly facing, and I was getting excellent isolation of their voices relative to everything else. I don’t know how it sense that the ipad voice wasn’t really a human, but since I got it to listen to humans rather than digital recordings, I decided I could live with that.

[Bimodal_user]

@CombatWombat

Then I realized it had focused on the group of people talking at the next table, who I was directly facing, and I was getting excellent isolation of their voices relative to everything else. I don’t know how it sense that the ipad voice wasn’t really a human, but since I got it to listen to humans rather than digital recordings, I decided I could live with that.

Perhaps your microphones are facing too far upward, so when you bow your head to your iPad, they receive sound directly from the next table instead of the tablet.
I have that problem with previous receiver cable. According to the measurements, I should have gotten a size “2” cable, which was too long and caused my HA to wobble on my auricle. I’ve got the size “0” now, and it is better.

See that post:

Phonak Audéo Sphere

Maybe I’m exaggerating a little bit, but I am somewhat disappointed that Audeo isn’t L-shaped. It would be an improvement to align the two microphones more horizontally to improve their effectiveness. [image] (from Providing Some Direction – Beamformers Explained)

.

Speaking of speech and noise signal from the same loudspeaker:

@Ryan_D

I’ve tried listening to youtube videos of people talking in noise and cranked it up. It doesn’t trigger the sphere mode turning on. So there’s something going on in the model that is able to tell the difference between people talking and a recording of them talking. Maybe it is different in a theater but I couldn’t get it to swap over by “tricking” them

I think you are correct that automatic Spheric mode relies a bit on directional signals. However, I suppose that in the manual Spheric program, things would be different.

[PeterH]

@Bimodal_user

Perhaps your microphones are facing too far upward, so when you bow your head to your iPad, they receive sound directly from the next table instead of the tablet.

I don’t believe they work that way. From what a scientist friend of mine said, when I asked him how a RogerOn works out direction from 3 mics in a straight line and a 4th on a different plane, especially with thise mics pointing upwards.

[PeterH]

@Bimodal_user

I think you are correct that automatic Spheric mode relies a bit on directional signals. However, I suppose that in the manual Spheric program, things would be different.

Didn’t I read on here, that the sphere will work just fine with a single hearing aid?
Peter

[Bimodal_user]

@PeterH

I don’t believe they work that way. From what a scientist friend of mine said, when I asked him how a RogerOn works out direction from 3 mics in a straight line and a 4th on a different plane, especially with thise mics pointing upwards.

On my post there is link to AudiologyOnline article, see it.

Yes, and pointing the mics upward is a necessary trade-off to place three mics in a line to obtain Pointing Mode 2.0 and a fourth mic to form a triangle, enabling multidirectionality similar to the Roger Select or Table Mic II.

Placing mics upward causes a tradeoff—I must point Roger On not directly at the mouth of my talker, but slightly below.

.

@PeterH

Didn’t I read on here, that the sphere will work just fine with a single hearing aid?

I would said more. From the interview below (from 5:50) it looks like single microphone is enough.I suppose the directionality of two mics on the Infinio Sphere gives the possibility of more efficient use of AI denoising.

Phonak Sphere Infinio Hearing Aid Launch

[Bimodal_user]

Out of curiosity, what did your scientist friend say?

[PeterH]

To be fair, I can’t remember exactly, but I suggested that maybe it was relating to the speed of the sound reaching each microphone. I think he suggested it was more the “phase” of the sound waves. This sounds more plausible. I did notice the placement of the 4th mic on the RogerOn, would help determine direction, due to triangulation with the nearest 2 of the 3.
Peter

[ryanb]

@Ryan_D

read some Phonak docs when these first came out that showed how many battery cycles you got before you had decline in the charge and I think they were claiming something like 4 years. I can’t exactly remember

I just had my batteries replaced in my L90s. They weren’t even 2 years old and yet the battery life had declined substantially to the point where they wouldn’t last a full day for me. That said, I wear them relatively hard — 17+ hours including many hours of streaming. So I do a lot of full charge cycles, which is what wears down batteries.

[Ryan_D]

Isn’t that the model that had battery issues? I think the L90s were the Kirkland KS10s that were pulled because of that? I could be wrong

[glucas]

No. The KS10s were a white label Phonak Audeo Paradise 90, or P90. I believe that the battery issues were mainly confined to the KS10s (although I could stand to be corrected on this) and not the P90 itself. I wore the KS10s and eventually Costco just replaced the charger unit for me (or the aids - I can’t remember exactly which) after I had difficulties, and it was a successful fix. But by then the damage was done and of course, there were thousands of unhappy campers. Btw, there was a lot of cloak and dagger over the exact derivation of the KS10. Some claimed it was the Phonak P90, but others claimed it was a Hansaton model, which is another hearing aid division of Sonova.

The L90 is the Audeo Lumity, which as far as I know has had no issues with its charger units. (for the rechargeable version).

[Bimodal_user]

I wanted to replace the battery in my Paradise 90-RT after 2.5 years of use when I sent it in for warranty inspection. Despite the fact that I even offered to pay for it, the audi told me that they do not replace on request.

[Ryan_D]

Ah ya, that’s right. Time flies I suppose. That’s pretty crazy that you had to change the batteries after only 2 years. I got 3 out of mine before they were dying by the end of the day and I thought that was pretty short.

[Ryan_D]

That’s where you just tell them that they’re dying early and make it a warranty issue

[ellisonvoice]

All very clever tech, though I would welcome more insights when it comes to handling of live music.
And… if you happen to be new to highly directional devices, do take care in traffic! Three times I came near to death walking on country roads when
vehicles approached from the rear, totally
unheard. And they were petrol/diesel, not super-quiet electrics.