Oticon More vs Phonak Paradise for speech recognition in background noise?

Does anyone know if Oticon More or Phonak Paradise would do better at hearing speech in background noise?

If both do well, what are the pros and cons of the other features that would make one more ideal than the other?

Hearing loss is individual so we wouldn’t be able to tell you. You’ll have to try them.

Two people with the exact same hearing loss would like different hearing aids.

Hearing is the ears but also the brain as well.

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Oh, I sort of meant on a technology/feature sort of thing haha

Technology features don’t correlate real well with individual perceptions. That said, a Paradise plus a Roger iN microphone would be hard to beat in background noise.

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That’s true. Thank you!

Oticon More should be better with its Deep Neural Network but it’s hard to say without any real data comparing it with the Phonak Paradise.

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I would say that it depends on the preference of the person wearing the hearing aids. If they like to have most of the background noise suppressed/blocked in a noisy environment so that they can focus solely on the speech in front, then the Paradise will probably fit this preference better. If they like to be aware of all sounds in their noisy environment, but have the hearing aids give them a better balance between all the sounds in that soundscape so that it can help them try and focus better on the speech, then the More will probably fit this preference better.

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@mirai.mizuhara: I’ve been wearing Oticon More3s for 16+ hours a day since March 2nd, after 6 years of barely wearing my poorly-fitted Unitron North Moxi Fit 800s at all. I love them - to say that they have been life-changing for me is not an exaggeration.

My evaluation of their suitability for me, my lifestyle, and my needs has absolutely zero to do with studying their technical specifications or marketing features.

There is a single criterion for success: can I better hear and make sense of speech and the other sounds around me?

But I would like to offer my personal clarification of what Oticon’s OpenSound Concept means to me.

It does NOT mean that:

  1. Any and all peripheral sounds are allowed to bombard me, indiscriminately, or;

  2. No noise reduction or fast compression is applied to sudden, loud sounds or;

  3. The hearing aids are not conducive to our brain’s ability to determine the directionality of sounds (both in front of, as well as around us).

OpenSound does mean:

  1. Sounds impinging on our ears from all directions are scanned and analyzed by the Deep Neural Network (a “reference library” of sound samples) 500x per second. Sounds classed as “relevant” or “containing speech” are enhanced and passed on, while sounds classed as “secondary” (think approaching car sounds or bird songs) are passed on, but in a slightly attenuated form. Noise sounds are even further suppressed;

  2. Sudden, loud noises are instantly limited and suppressed, while feedback is proactively detected and prevented from occurring, and;

  3. Because Oticon More3s supply the brain’s auditory cortex with a wealth of relevant information (even though some of it is “pixellated” by our damaged hearing apparatus) our brains are exquisitely-adapted pattern detectors that can make sense of even damaged neural code. Research has proven that the brain can successfully extrapolate the information contained by raw, incoming data whose integrity has been compromised by damaged hearing. This ability permits us to accurately pinpoint the origin of what we have decided are relevant sounds, upon which we need to focus.

Yes, fewer sounds from the rear and sides of our heads are filtered out completely, but these sounds are massaged and conditioned by Polaris (the chipset) and our brain is permitted to learn from the soundscape and decide for itself which sounds it needs to focus on and pay attention to.

(The “conditioning” applied by Polaris is complex and subtle, and is qualitatively very different from the "beam forming " approach adopted by most HA manufacturers. Oticon’s take on compression, frequency lowering, and noise suppression is also distinctive.)

So - YES, I’m a proud Oticonian - but if you choose the right audiologist, you can obtain a temporary visa to our Magic Kingdom and try our “benefits of citizenship” for yourself!

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I’m going to weigh in with my thoughts at this point in my getting used to my new Oticon More 1. I had a short trial with Phonak Paradise after having worn Oticon Opn 1 for over three years. I was surprised at how much I liked the Paradise. I had had Phonak Audeo Q before the Opn1. I thought the Opn 1 was a big improvement over the Audeo Q. I thought I would never want to own a Phonak again.

When I had to decide between Paradise and More I was under a time constraint where I had to complete the sale by a certain date in order to satisfy an insurance deadline. I chose More without a real trial because I thought they would be an improvement over the Opn 1.

My experience with the More so far has not been great. My audi set up the More with settings “similar” to the settings of the Opn. Now that I am again experiencing conversational situations with background noise I am finding that the programs that my audi set up for me for speech in noise directionality work better for speech comprehension in almost all situations than the default program. This is not how it’s supposed to be.

To be fair, my audi has offered unlimited adjustments. I am about to request one. Maybe (hopefully!) there will be a big improvement. But I wonder…if I had had full trials with multiple adjustments with both Paradise and More, would I have chosen Paradise? Maybe.

In the last couple of days I see that Costco has announced their KS10, which is almost the same HA as the Paradise. Except it costs only $1400 per pair. Miral.mizuhara, if Costco is available in your location I think you should try the KS10 before you decide to pay more than three times as much for the More.

@ziploc Below is the screenshot for the MoreSound Intelligence page (the deep neural network stuff). Also here’s the link that describes the options in there file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Oticon/Genie/Genie2/Help/en-US/Content/B_Fitting%20flow%20and%20tools/D_Fitting/MoreSound%20Intelligence.htm

It may be helpful if you become familiar with them so you can verify what your audi currently has it set to next time you see him/her, and be able to tell him/her know which value you want for which setting.

For speech in noise, I’d want to have the max value of 4dB for Easy and 10 dB for Difficult in the Neural Noise Suppression. As you can see, in my “imaginary” profile, it defaults to 0 dB for Easy and only 6 dB for Difficult (as indicated by the little Power On icon as the default location). I had to manually changed them to max. If your audi left these settings at the low Default values, it may be why you’re not getting the help with speech comprehension unless you’re in Full Directional value in your Directionality Settings. This is like skipping out on the Deep Neural Network feature altogether, which is a waste since this is the flagship item on the More.

If you need more help, you can “expand” the Difficult configuration to include situation with 3 people or even just 2 people.

If you have a Windows based PC, consider downloading the Genie 2 programming software even if you don’t intend to do any programming yourself. You can create a virtual profile so you browse around the options without having to need any hardware interface to connect with your Mores.

But if you finding yourself liking the Paradise a lot, and that the Full Directionality is the only More setting that works best for you for speech in noise, you may be pre-disposed to prefer to have noises blocked out/suppressed in favor of speech.

But if you were doing fine with the OPN and find the More more lacking than the OPN, it’s most likely that the More hasn’t been programmed to your preferred liking yet, that’s all.

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Thank you Volusiano. I’ll look into this.

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SpudGunner, this has not been my experience. I hear, or at least think I can hear, the direction of sounds and seem to be able to judge distance as well, both with my Brio2s and P90s. I wouldn’t think it would be different with other HAs.

Is this my imagination, a placebo effect? Perhaps there is significant variability in this perception from person to person? I hadn’t really thought about it before.

I think SpudGunner used a double negative here -> “It does NOT mean that” -> the HAs are not conducive … to determine the directionality of sounds…

So I take that to mean The HAs ARE conducive… to determine the directionality of sounds…

Binaural processing in the More uses Near Field Magnetic Induction to exchange data and audio information between the 2 hearing aids. This helps determine the directionality of the sounds approaching the 2 hearing aids.

Ahh…, reading comprehension fail… …doh…

Thanks Volusiano.

There’s a preceding negation, which means the hearing aids are conducive to our brain’s ability to determine the directionality of sounds…

I’m sorry for the clumsy syntax: I KNOW how to write better! Sorry!!!

No worries, that’s what I get for trying to be clever with quotes.

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@parishd: I really apologize for my difficult-to-understand prose in the text that you quoted.

My excuse is that my 176-piund Newfoundland dog had a seizure the night before, and we were all operating on minimal sleep.

I had a premonition this would happen: I should have listened to the little voice and redrafted it immediately!

:unamused:

Remote mics can be super helpful for hearing in noise. I find the Oticon remote mics much more reasonably priced, reliable and user friendly than the Phonak Roger mics.

You in bilateral open domes? Do you notice much difference in your ability to localize sound with your hearing aids in versus your hearing aids out? How about low frequency sounds versus high frequency sounds?

It’d be nice if you could return your Mores for Paradises but I’m not sure how that would be insurance-wise. Hopefully you and your audiologist will be able to find a program that works well for you. Sounds like you hardly got an upgrade ;;

We have CostCo but the KS10 isn’t available in Australia yet as far as I can tell from their website (maybe I checked before they updated it, or maybe they won’t have it for a while). I’ve heard about super mixed experiences with CostCo so I’d rather spend a couple grand extra for peace of mind (plus the service I’m going to go to really cares about how the brain listens).

I might look into the KS10 if they become available in Australia (unless they are and I’m dumb) but I can’t emotionally stand waiting any longer with the state of my hearing in background noise :3