I’m on my trial period with a set of Oticon More-1. While there’s a lot that I like, there an annoying Bzzzzit/ stuttering at times and I’m wondering if the pair I have is defective, or it it is a normal artifact of the processing. I’m wondering if anyone else wearing Oticon More’s have experienced the same, or know what is going on.
What I’ve noticed is that multiple times a day, even in a single conversation, a sound in a word will degrade into a buzz. “Buzz” doesn’t quite describe it. It’s like the hearing aid has a car’s ABS system and the sound has made it “slam the brakes” and the sound will convert to a stutter, or like a washboard strum, like one of those ribbed wooden musical instruments you scrape, and it becomes a “BZZZZZZIT”. It’s like some system has overloaded. It happens in both ears, though I think sometimes I just hear it in one ear. It’s short and seems to mostly be in response to female voices. I haven’t noticed it happening to other sounds.
If it were just one ear, I would have guessed that most likely the receiver has gone bad. But it’s unlikely that both would go bad in the same way at the same time, so that’s kind of weird. But nevertheless, that’d be the first thing I’d ask your audi to replace, unless he/she has another pair of demo More to replace for you. That way you don’t have to be interrupted with your trial because they most likely have spare receivers in stock but not necessarily multiple pairs of demo loaners for trials in stock. Even if you get another pair of More demos to replace, make sure that they use different brand new receivers and not reuse the same receivers.
I also assume that your HCP didn’t enable the Speech Rescue frequency lowering for you. If so, try to turn it off first to see if that helps.
Yes! I had the same issue. Very hard to describe. I googled washboard strum & that is a great description. Same sound! I had such difficulty describing the sound. My own voice would cause it, often a complete sentence. I found I would automatically stop mid sentence for the stutter to stop or catch up. My issue occurred most of the time, making it so bad, I kept switching back to OPN1. It is not a defect, it is a programing setting - my experience.
It was in the demos - the new More1’s - new receivers - new replaced Mores1, old receivers from OPN1. Audi kept thinking it was wrap around sound leakage from domes re-entering the mics, causing clipping. Tried to be fitted with custom molds (too many remakes to count) to eliminate leakage. Still had the washboard strum sound.
Audi gave me OPNS1 to try while replacements were ordered, and it was in them. That told me it was in the programing - similar technology in the OPNS and Mores.
Met with the Oticon Rep, who made a programing change that corrected it quickly and immediately!! Happens now, slightly on occasion, only on a word. There is a “hidden menu / setting” the Audi doesn’t know about - my understanding. I wish I knew more. Very few people have this issue, apparently, but there is a fix. I wasted 4 months chasing a solution. Very frustrating for everyone. Calling in the Oticon Rep to adjust this ‘secret sauce’ they don’t want the Audis to mess with may help you also. @Volusiano - others who DIY - maybe you can find this hidden setting. This particular issue has made me think I should learn how to DIY.
Wasn’t there a flutter thread earlier in this forum that is like this issue? I’ve experienced this occasionally with Speech in Noise programs in noisy car environments with music playing
I recall that Flutter Thread. This prolonged stuttering sound that OP perfectly described as a washboard strum sound is different from flutter, and is very abrupt. I also get flutter occasionally, esp in the OPN1 in Speech in Noise. It is different. I can live with flutter.
Below is what I just wrote up on the Flutter thread that may be relevant here. I suspect what the OP and @mago are hearing then would be the STM pulses that get inserted to stave off any feedback potential by breaking off the energy build up that’s detected that can start causing feedback.
Starting with the latest firmware of the More, Oticon now gives you an option to set the Feedback Management in the Automatics section to Low (in additional to Normal and OFF) to help mitigate this pulsing sound. Maybe they had it as a hidden feature in the previous firmware version, but now after they’ve thoroughly tested it out, they’ve released it to the public in the latest 1.1.1 firmware for the More.
Below is what I wrote in the other thread:
The More has 2 feedback features. One is the original/traditional feedback management (called Feedback Shield) using gain control, phase shifting and 10 Hz frequency shift. The fluttering due to the 10 Hz frequency shift is usually most noticeable when there’s pure tone. Your ears hear both the shifted tone through the HA’s amplifier, and the natural unshifted tone that gets to your ear naturally through the vent opening. The combined effect of hearing both of these at the same time in your ear is the fluttering. The only way to fix this issue entirely is to not use the Feedback Shield capability at all (not run the Feedback Analyzer and enable it).
There’s a second feedback prevention feature in the More called MoreSound Optimizer. This is not a reactive system that activates AFTER feedback occurs to correct, but is a proactive system that activates BEFORE feedback occurs, by detecting the potential for feedback at its onset. If the potential for feedback is detected (strong build up of the spectral energy), STM (Spectro Temporal Modulation) pulses would be inserted rapidly to break off this potential energy build up to stave off the feedback from occurring. This can be done in any of the 28 independent frequency channels to provide accurate break-off of the feedback path only in the frequency bands where it’s needed.
Sometimes this can be heard by the user depending on which frequency band(s) it’s activated in.
The More’s latest firmware contains a fix for it by means of now giving the user an option in the Feedback Management setting in Automatics to Low or OFF from Normal to reduce or disable the MoreSound Optimizer partially or entirely. The Normal will use the start frequency of 940 Hz. The Low setting will use the start frequency of about 1500 Hz.
@jcw11, I suspect what you heard on the More 1 you trialed is probably the STM pulses in the MoreSound Optimizer.
The fluttering that you hear from the Paradise Lifes cannot be from the STMs because this technology is exclusively patented for Oticon HAs only. So more likely what you hear on the Paradise is from the frequency shifting strategy used in the traditional reactive feedback management.
It’s the feedback reducer setting. It drips the pitch by 10 Hz to try to stop feedback. If you hum a single pitch you can hear it oscillating. Have them turn it to low or off and that will fix it.
The other fix is domes that don’t let sound out. For those of us who have open or vented domes, that’s the culprit.
I tried humming a single pitch, different notes, and it didn’t trigger it. I’ve not noticed it being triggered by my voice. My wife is good at triggering it. The radio can as well, and when we dined at a parklet last night some the people at another table triggered it.
I’d still ask about the feedback reduction. A few of us have had the issue and that seems to solve it. Hopefully it works for you, it was driving me insane.
This is similar, if not exactly what you described.
I’ve had ongoing issues since I got them, and it’s pretty much all in the fitter understanding the Genie 2 software.
No secret sauce, it’s this:
@volusiano, and @hass5744 yes the STM’s are the villian, and to correct it in the More’s they added a setting in Genie 2 under Automatics. See screenshot:
On my first post fitting visit I reported to my audi who said he hadn’t heard of it before, but as I reported it as occurring in both ears he thought it was likely caused by the feedback protocols.
I read the prior “flutter” posts and like Mago has just piped up to say, it’s not really a flutter if that matters. It’s a hard staccato, washboard strum, with a frequency like ABS brake shudder that starts and stops abruptly. For me, so far, it has always been a short duration “bzzztt” that seems triggered by various tone/loudness combos within words.
My previous pair were Oticon Opn-1 with RITC in fitted ear mold receivers. The new are Oticon More-1 with either 100 or 105 RITC molded receivers. Hearing threshold is around 80 Db. (If you had looked at my profile earlier you would have seen a very old audiogram. I deleted all but my most recent I have a print out of.)
I will ask audi to try turning off feedback suppression functions, but I’m concerned that a complete turning off will create worse problems.
There can only be 2 things, either the real fluttering due to the 10 Hz shift mostly heard on pure tones. Or the STM pulse noise. What you describe definitely sounds like the STM pulse noise.
You have quite severe hearing loss, so it’s natural that you need high amplification, which makes feedback an easy enemy for you. Because feedback is an easy enemy, the MoreSound Optimizer has to work overtime to trigger the STM pulses to break off the feedback for you. Hence you probably notice it more than normal or more than other people with less severe hearing loss.
You can ask your audi to turn off the Feedback Management in the Automatics section and just use the traditional Feedback Shield and see how bad the feedback issue is. Or maybe turn it to LOW first and see. Then you can decide what is worse, the feedback or the STM pulse noise, and which you’d rather live with.
Thank you. Yes, the STM pulse noise does sound most likely. It also fits with my audi’s comment that we can try adjusting the feedback systems. I will ask him to turn STM to low first then see if feedback is already an issue. That might be something we can determine in the office.
Not if they were still testing it and it’s not bug free enough for a general release yet. The latest 1.1.1 firmware on the More has released the MoreSound Optimizer fluttering issue with an option to set the feedback management to a lower level (change the start frequency for feedback from 940 Hz to 1500 Hz).
Thanks to all for this very valuable explanation / information. I had told my Audi at the time, I suspected the Sound Optimizer only because the issue was in loaner OPNS and Mores. Mores settings were loaded into loaner OPNS. I had worn OPNS previously when OPN1 went to Oticon before Warranty expired, and I did not have the issue.
My Feedback management setting is now Low - I think it was previously set to Normal - there were so many adjustments trying to get rid of this issue.
Another point, the Rep did not run feedback after the change to Low. Subsequent Audi visits, trying to fine tune the settings, when Audi runs feedback, the stuttering strum sound returns, maybe to a lesser degree, but I don’t want it at all. I do not have issues with feedback.
Firmware 1.1.1 was updated at the same visit.
According to the op the hearing aid is out for trial by users. Users that are testing the aids for possible future purchase. I would like to think that the aids I’m trialing work exactly like the aids I might eventually purchase otherwise what’s the point. These aids according to the op are aids that are now available to the public. The audiologist says he’s unaware of any programs that fixes the problem. I’m just going by what I’m reading here. I’ve never been told that an aid I’m trialing which has a problem will be fixed later. My answer would be let me know when they fix it
