My experience going from Widex to Oticon to Starkey trial

Hearing Aids
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#41

I am a hearing aid user of 44 years. My original audiologist, whom I had from 1976 to 2011, used to let me play with his fitting software - he knew I understood things.

My second audiologist knows the same. He listens when I tell him things and i listen to him. Widex is not some magical outlier. They have a reputation for a pleasing sound…good tonality. I am telling you flat out, REM matches people to their prescriptions better than anything else. OF COURSE some aren’t going to be happy. Some want a certain sound even if that isn’t the best for their hearing…usually has to do with what they are used to… For new aid users…they have to get used to things that were missing and may now seem loud or harsh. For experience aid users, it likely has to do with the characteristics of their old hearing aids. I will tell you that when I went from analog aids to Phonak Savia 311dsz aids, it was a shock. This was before the REM became widely available. But analog and digital have different characteristics. From everything I have read, Widex aids probably slope a little more gently and thus approximate the filtering of the analog aid. Analog isn’t a dirty word by no means. I wore analog from 1976 to 2007. In some ways, I prefer the tonality of the analog. However, the digital simply has many things an analog can’t do.

So - I say that REM with Widex will give a better prescribed fit. However, it may not be a sonic environment some like…this is true with all hearing aids. You may not like the taste of the medicine, but it will help… Sure, an audi can be good and maybe great without using REM. Why would he or she not avail themselves of every tool in their quest to get the best hearing for their patient?

The marvel platform is awesome. I trialed that for awhile. But for my particular situation, Resound’s Quattro was better for ME. The Marvel is a damn fine hearing aid. As a pure aid, it may be a slight tic better than Quattro. For me, some of the Marvel strengths were weaknesses for my particular situation. The Bluetooth classic connectivity along with using the aid mics as the bluetooth headset mic was a no-go. The remote wasn’t as good for ME as the resound remote. Software design elements in the Marvel line did not meet my needs like those of Resound. Change my work environment and needs from a steel mill to an office and the situation changes.

My long meandering speech can be summarized thus - people’s likes are subjective. The REM is an objective means of meeting a prescription…end story.

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#42

Who cares about hitting the prescription if you don’t get speech understanding? And that’s what issue with widex is, rem fit won’t be good for speech understanding. That’s what my audi said. We’re not talking about beauty of the sound, but purpose of HA. Widex obviously does something in the background which doesn’t corresponds with numbers on the screen.

I completely agree that measuring is way to go. But if person who is doing it for many brands says that systematically rem doesn’t work on widex, I’m inclined to believe him. I was happy with base results on my marvel and said I’d like to do widex as well in the same way and he told me all of this.

Oh and I’m over prescribed and is still not loud enough. Nal/dsl formulas are results of averages, however, your specific hearing and fisionomy can want different adjustments to get the best comprehension.

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#43

As my Audi told me that the REM is a starting point, then the real adjustments start. And he has told me that for some that the REM is all they need. It all depends on the individual’s hearing loss.

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#44

Addition: I know what logic tells you, and I’m definitely for measuring @efigalaxie
However, fitting aids is still only discreet, by several points, and other frequencies are approximated. So, different could be what widex does with the space between handles, and that even if measuring devices (which I believe still is discreet edit: based on lines I saw from the device, it’s polinomial approximate, just maybe a bit finer than what HA gives) says it’s that, in reality it might not be.

It’s all some polinomial line, with wild guess what’s in between.

Edit: from 125 to 8000 hz there’s 7875 points. We use what, 16, 24 handles to get the best approximate? Who says that my hearing at 1500 is the same as at 1550?
I might have more distortion than we currently can figure it out.

And I’m inclined to believe that widex definitely uses some different algorithms for sound processing. And our brain could interpret that a bit differently, but just enough to break or make the comprehension.

If 3db difference in one spot can make or break it, who knows what else is a factor.

#45

Ok, what I’m getting from this is, if, after REM is done on Widex and more tweaking needs to be done and my audi doesn’t have the experience needed with Widex sw, I either choose Opns or try to find audi that can get the most out of Widex. And, how do I know if audi is good with Widex?

I really like my audi. I can tell she cares and wants the best for me. We have been emailing this weekend (even Sunday) about the opns and the domes that won’t stay in. She is putting different ones in the mail to me today.

#46

Personally I feel and have found that my Audi is the most important part of my hearing journey. The Audi that knows the hearing aids and the fitting software will take what some see as lesser hearing aids and make them the best due to the tune that the Audi can do for me. So I prefer a great Audi and the hearing aids that that Audi knows the best.

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#47

The sensogram measures the sound as it is heard through the hearing aids directly into the ear, and then sets up the prescription to allow for the position as it is when directly in the ear. The vent selection will tailor this to enable the frequencies to match as accurately as possible which is why the combination gives a very high level of instant hearing.

#48

I’m not sure if she did the sensogram yet or not, or is not the same as REM? I noticed the widex domes had two vents in each dome and the opn’s have only one. I don’t know what size vents but they look to be the same, just widex has two.

#49

I ask her if she perferred working with one brands sw over another (she has 5 or 6 different brands) and she said that it didn’t matter. I really thought she might have a preference.

#50

There have been a number of discussions on software fit fittings versus REM fittings on this forum.

Widex has the Sensogram and Phonak has Audiogram Direct. Other manufacturers might have their version too. The REM is an established proper fit for most fittings. But, some have had excellent results using the manufacturer software fittings. Phonaks last firmware update was based on remote Audiogram Direct fittings so it can’t be too bad of a fit.

#51

The sensogram is part of the Widex fitting software so the aids will be put into your ears, and then sounds will be played directly in to your aids and you let the fitter know when you hear them. On the fitting screen the fitter will also have selected what type of vent you have in the Widex software and this will then make subtle adjustments working with the sensogram to get maximum clarity and results. It is very accurate and needs to be re-done every time the moulds are changed as it goes along all the frequencies adjusting by just a few decibels up or down where needed to get best results. Through following this for myself and my son we both have a very high standard of hearing with no frequency adjustments needed. REM will not take into account the other elements of the Widex fitting software so you then lose the core of the Widex set up. With Widex set up and custom tips 100% speech recognition in tests, with REM this can be more like 70% as it doesn’t work in conjunction with the Widex set up. I hope this helps and good luck with your set up whichever you choose.

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#52

My Audi also works with everything that the VA offers including CI processors. But he has said this that he will tell his patients that he prefers x for certain patients due to the fact that their hearing loss and the environment they deal with works better with the hearing aid. Also, the VA only issues the top of the line hearing aids of each manufacturer. Now that the clinic that I go to has grown and there is more than one Audi, they are dividing the different brands among themselves so they can better learn the aids and software, so they can better serve the patients.

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#53

Right, audi did recommend, for my type hearing loss, Widex moments and Oticon OPNs1 on my first visit, after the hearing test.

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#54

From what I’ve read, you’ve been most satisfied with Oticon. So ask yourself, what’s that about widex that you’d like to change audi for it?

My and other people observation that they’re not fit properly both for you so comparison isn’t fair, it might be a fact, but if the goal is to find one aid that suits you, you are allowed to stop at the first one that does so, no need to do fair test on several.

At the end of the day, if it doesn’t matter which brand is it (bc of accessories for example), and if this audi is better with oticon, or oticon’s sw is just better for your loss, who cares, go with the horse that runs best :wink:

However if price difference is big, or some other factors, then what I’d do is do trials with two audis - one for widex (find who does it best for you), and this one for oticon, no need to do it in parallel, do one month of each, then repeat. You don’t have to buy any item after trialing. You’re allowed to take more time. It’s your money after all. Yes they might refuse to do trials for you several times a year for the same aid, however, if you need just 2 and you buy item, they got profit.

I wouldn’t sweat too much about possibly unfair comparison between two aids if I found one that works as I want it to do.
If neither work well, then 2 audis and 2 trials and write notes. :wink:

edit: just ignore what we jumped on how you didn’t have fair trial. It still holds, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter. Only thing it matters is if you found a device, settings and audi that gets you the most out of the aids to your satisfaction.

If you’re not getting what you expect to get (word recognition score at least the same as without aid but with very loud headphones), then push for precise setup for trials for any aid you compare. First get the best out of it, then compare. Yes, it might be that you’re comparing audis at the end, and not devices, but who cares about great device if you can’t find audi who can extract the best results out if it for you? :wink:

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#55

I bought Widex Evoke after trialling it more than a month since March before lockdown. I have tested trial for a week with Phonak Marvel and Rexton. I can conclude that:

  1. every HA brands sound and first setting/ recommended frequencies are different
  2. every level (Standard. advanced and Premium) fits according to lifestyle
  3. every audiologist / dispenser is different
  4. most audiologists in my country do not conduct REM but they use computer program to run a similar function
  5. not all audiologists understand the mechanism of each HA brands and models. Hence most audiologists stick to 2-3 brands (for in depth study!)
  6. average lifespan of digital HA is 7 years, do consider after sales service by the Centre and manufacturer.

I like Widex because of its natural sound especially music that I missed with other HA brands (that focused more on speech). With other brands, I would go annoyed as I had tinnitus.

I trialed each brand for 2-3 days. Then I tested each aid side by side listening to speech in quiet and noisy background, TV, live Zoom, YouTube, phone conversation. Streaming and off streaming. It is funny that the one we like initially is not perfect when we tested each brand side by side! I almost chose Rexton for being all-rounded speech and music if not because of BT connection issue.

Not all HA brands are perfect. It is perfect when you as a user (and guided by audiologist/ dispenser) understand how it works. Take your time before you fall in love with one. :slight_smile:

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#56

Your loss is almost typical to mine and am having OPN-S1 . Believe me, I tried other HA’s and none gave me same sounds clarity like the OPN. In just few weeks your brain will adopt and will need more sounds. OPN TV streamer is awesome . Connectclip is also great added value to connect to your PC or stream from android (I got it in the package and now using it to stream direct from my Apple Watch)
Btw: I also tried Widex evoke 440 and it was nothing compute OPN. I also have to add that it’s not about other aids are bad but rather our brain adoption to sounds processed from one aid to another

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#57

I’m not sure about needing more sounds but my brain has settled in with opn’s way of processing sound. I had stated earlier that opn was sharper sounding. I don’t think that now as much after 5 days with the OPN’s. Maybe just a little mechanical sounding. I’m sure some tweaking can help with that .

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#58

What I meant with “more sound” is a figure of speech :joy:. You will be craving for more sounds in the first few weeks (during adopting period) then these all will be normal that your brain will discard noise like fridge, microwave, AC running and will only focus on human voices.
For me, I try to wait awake late before taking off just before sleeping

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#59

Just received 4 different kinds of domes in the mail from audi. So far I tried the power domes and I couldn’t take the stopped up feeling and my voice sounding like I was under water, just in the right ear though. I changed out the power dome for the tulip in the right and it’s much better. I’ll give that a go for a while before trying the closed and open domes.

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#60

Thank you for this post. Looking at my aufiogram do you think molds would be helpful. My initial Audi who was not very proactive and I don’t believe understood how to fit me correctly, at one point Suggested mold ‘may’ help. She never followed through w/ why or we will give it a try. TIA