Not sure it is the case here, but I think one of the issues the hearing aid designers have to deal with is the impact of more and more smarts and processing being loaded on to hearing aids. All of these bells and whistles and fancy electronic digital tricks at some point take more time if the processing power does not keep up with the processing load. This can result in a time delay between what the HA produces for audio compared to what you hear directly through any kind of intentional or unintentional vents in the fitting. When the HA output and real sound is significantly out of phase it can cause audio quality issues, especially in the higher frequencies. Keep in mind there is pressure on the designer to keep processor power and battery consumption low, but still deliver signal without time delay. These are conflicting requirements.
I will try and get in tomorrow to see if I can work with the technician to find the cause. Since the trill presents as a slight pitch change along with what seems to be a fast stereo tremolo, I wonder if the problem might be related to the binaural control/audio that’s at work. I’ll try and remember all we did. If we can’t get to the bottom of it tomorrow, I am going to end my trial early. I am hearing it across the board now, on critical listening. In lower frequencies, it could be misinterpreted as distortion. It’s immediately evident in higher frequencies. With others reporting near audiophile quality and not a hint of the trill, it’s gotta be something that’s either over done. Could be multi-channel limiting/compression, but I am not sure that would account for the pitch variance. Because there seems to be a constant stereo effect (took me a while to realize I was hearing the world in what seems to be a processed stereo rather than natural) I think looking at the binaural operation and the way it works with the feeback rejection system is where the answer will be found.
In response to some of the latency discussion above. Roger works over a proprietary wireless connection that is low latency, and I do not believe you would be able to achieve the same low latency streaming via Bluetooth classic with the KS9 or Marvels.
If you end your trial early, then what hearing aids will you try? I am in the early stages of using the Kirkland Signature 8.0’s. I feel like these are upgrades to my 6 year old Rexton quintra’s (that I paid $2600 for at Costco in 2013). But the Signature 8.0’s so sound a little tinny/trebly and thin. I need to give them some time and then have my HIS adjust them. I have not found a setting on the 8.0’s that are pleasing when I play acoustic guitar. My HIS gave me a setting on my former Rexton Quintra’s that worked great.
I mention all that because I want to find out if the Kirkland Signature 9.0 are capable of better fidelity in a setting I can use for guitar.
The other thing I noticed with the Kirkland Sig 9’s (Phonak) was a pervasive, constant high frequency hiss. Sort of a pillow of High frequency hiss like a SHHHHhhhhhhhh sound. Are you happy with the fidelity and tonal quality with the KS9’s?
I’ve heard a couple of people mention this high frequency hiss. It sounds like it might be floor noise, the sound that the hearing aids make. This is usually an issue for people with good to excellent low frequency hearing. My feeling is that it’s worse if higher power receivers are used, but have no evidence to back that up. Do you know which receiver your using?
I get this hiss, turning Sound Recover on, gets rid of it.
Right now, my trial is for the Phonak Marvels, and it’s through Phonak’s Connect Hearing retail outlet. When I go to Costco after this trial, I WILL try the KS-9s and see if working with their technician gets a different result than the Phonaks. The audio is fine on Music Setting with no feedback rejection. I am wearing the medium sized dome (looks like a little black eclipse with a bit of a nipple at the end), so it’s not a sealed-ear situation. Streaming music, from my phone, doesn’t sound great, but I reckon that’s because the bass is diminished due to the open fit. I’ve been told by a couple people that the new Philips Hearing Link is what I want to try. So, that will be next. As I’ve said, my America Hears are GREAT sounding AND I can program them myself, but they just lack the bells and whistles of modern aids, are a little more prone to feedback, and frankly, as they are 10 years old, I am worried about longevity. But for my lifestyle and involvement as a musician, they are great.
I take it you have tried the Music Enhancer program? There are three sub programs to choose from:
Listening with Speakers
Listening at a live Venue
Playing an Instrument
Where is that? I am in the App on my iPhone and there is a setting titled “Playing music”, but I don’t see any area’s for options within that setting.
PS: The default Program options in the Smart Direct App on my KS8’s are:
Automatic
Playing Music
Cafe
Cinema & Theater
Group Conversation
When I tried playing my acoustic guitar at home, I switched into each of those. In every instance the tone was bright, a bit tinny sounding and a single fretted note was polyphonic in the sense my 6 string guitar sounded more like a 12 string guitar. I.e. one single fretted note was sounded more like two strings. *Not sure if this is what others are calling "trilling?? I am still unclear about that term.
"*Not sure if this is what others are calling “trilling?? I am still unclear about that term.”
Yes, I think that’s what you are hearing. I WILL try and get a recording of it to share. Just gotta get a setup that will let me do it. Perhaps today.
Sorry if I appear curmudgeonly, but I have a request. Could we try to keep posts “on topic?” Besides the posted topic, I’ve seen this post diverge into talking about Marvels and related problems, KS8 and related questions and tangents taking off from there. I’m not a forum admin so this is just a request for a favor. I know there are no guidelines on this. The one I use for myself when deciding to start a new thread or add to one is if I were trying to find the post again, where would I look for it.
Point taken about staying ‘on topic’. I only mentioned the KS8’s because I am in the trial period knowing I can return and try the K9’s. So the ‘frame of reference’ for me was intended to be ‘on topic.’
Don, I am under the impression that all hearing brand TV transmitters, until this new generation of bluetooth transmitters, used either FM or low latency bluetooth like Apple’s MFI, not conventional bluetooth. We know that there is no delay with FM. And for years that was the explanation given to us by HA manufacturers as to why they were sticking with FM (except with iPhones) and not going over to (standard) bluetooth.
When you say that: “All the hearing aid brand TV transmitters that I’ve tried have no delay.” should I presume that the hearing aid brand TV transmitters that you have tried are all the new generation of bluetooth TV transmitters, or are were they FM or MFI?
Hi welcome to the forum 
The last three programs you listed are defaults built into the Smart Direct App. The Playing Music one sounds like the specific program from the Connexx programming software, although I see it is specifically called Playing an Instrument in the current Connexx 9 software. Probably the same thing. These are specific programs that have to be set up (one mouse click) by your fitter. You can have 5 of these in addition to the default Automatic. Sounds like you only have the one additional one.
As far as the trilling goes, I am still stuck on the thought of mixing hearing aid produced sound with natural sound through a fitting vent or leak. They are likely to interact at higher frequencies if there is a significant time delay in the HA audio signal and they are of a similar amplitude. If the hearing aid is producing lots of output because your hearing loss at higher frequencies is bad, then the natural sound coming is likely to be too low to have any impact. This would not be a problem with the KS9 more than any other hearing aid, unless there is an excessive time delay, and even then not everybody is going to hear it. Someone with a cookie bite loss may be more likely to be affected. Just my thoughts…
Start another thread if you want more help with the KS8.
Good point. I’ll stop here until I actually trial the KS-9s in three weeks and report if they have the same issues as the Marvels.
I have a cookie bite loss and the trilling is terrible around 2000-4000 Hz. That is with my Phonak Brio 3 HA but would probably be the same with the KS 9.0
I call it a warble. Particularly longer microwave beep-notifications and such. It just reminds me that the HA’s are doing something.
I’ve just posted in the trill/tremolo Marvel thread, complete with nine audio clips illustrating this effect.
Phonak seems to be Bluetooth because the Compilot 2 is required. The Rexton/Signia and the Resound transmit directly to the hearing aids using a proprietary method. Could be 2.4, could be fm. All three brands work well with no delay.