You are so wrong. The Environmental Adaptation works very close to the same as autosense. And I don’t have anything but the P1 default program, and the TV adapter. I have worn aids for over 18 years and my first 3 sets did even have a volume adjustment much less different programs. And I didn’t have any issues. While I have had aids with multiple programs I always just kept with the primary default program and only until the OPN , OPNS and More aids have I had the need to make volume adjustments.
How come Phonak builds so much control into the HA body rocker switch and into Tap Control (tap the side of the HA to change program settings, streaming/answer phone calls, mute etc., (might be wrong on Tap Control choices); right and left HA can be set separately) if it’s all set it and forget it in the HA world. Claiming that and giving you manual controls galore seems like hypocrisy! Phonak seems to feel many users want manual options…
Edit_Update: I think the ideal situation would be just to be able to talk to your HA’s and tell them what to do. I can talk to my Apple Watch through Siri and adjust either media volume or the volume of Siri’s voice. I can imagine voice control going alot farther than that for any device, including HA’s. No buttons to push, no ear to tap, no smartphone or watch app necessary a lot of the time.
Who made this assertion? I don’t remember anyone claiming the world is this way! Just some of us put in our aids and tend to just … well … forget that they’re there most of the time (meaning we tend not to fiddle with them.)
Different topic.
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You completely missed my point, Chuck. If you only have 1 program and it works everywhere for you then that’s fine and dandy. That’s what Oticon intends for most users when they came out with the OPN, then the S, then the More.
But if your statement misleads others who have more than 1 program (unlike you) in their OPN/S/More to believe that Oticon will automatically switch from 1 of their programs to another, then that’s what I want to clarify that it doesn’t. That’s why there are buttons on the aids and buttons in the ON app and the MFI interface for people to have to MANUALLY change their programs.
I think you talk apple only and confuse others that apple can automatically be changed to orange or banana or strawberry by Oticon (these fruits being DISTINCT programs that one may have in their More). I want to clarify that Chuck only has apple (just confirmed by you), and he only needs and wants apple, but if others have apple + orange + banana + strawberry, then their apple is not going to turn into banana automagically for them.
And by the way, the adaptation by Oticon within 1 SINGLE program does NOT work very close to the same as AutoSense. AutoSense detects the environment change and switches from one DISTINCT program to another DISTINCT program automatically. Oticon does not do that. Oticon will adjust the parameters within a program to adjust for the environment change, but Oticon will NOT change from 1 program to another program automatically. They are 2 very different approaches. That is why I hear Phonak users complain that they don’t like to notice that AutoSense keep hunting for environmental changes and switching programs on them too frequently to their liking. I never hear anybody using Oticon OPN/S/More ever complains that Oticon keep switching programs on them, because Oticon NEVER does. Only the users do. Oticon only adjust parameters within THE SAME program as it detects the environment changes.
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@Volusiano: Exactly, MrV … Exactly!. Not that @cvkemp Chuck was consciously trying to mislead anyone, however, it is unclear to those of us who have had aids that perform automatic program selection, going by Chuck’s statement, that Oticon hearing aids do not - categorically - do that.
The Oticon aids have Environmental adaptation which is similar to the Phonak autosense is what I am getting at. Get off your high horse and pay attention and look at the comparison and in the hearing aid section of your he hearing tracker.
I disagrée. And you can keep your insults to yourself. I’ll wait for someone knowledgeable to prove you wrong. I don’t know enough detail to plead my case effectively,.
With Roger you can but that’s with Phonak. Not sure on other brands.
Once I turn my Roger Mic on, my Aids connect. Same with Partner Mic. Same with Bluetooth as well.
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I was thinking of the directionality choices with Roger On and switching between pointing mode and table mode, etc. Perhaps the switch between table mode and pointing mode could be automatically controlled by accelerometers, gyroscopes, etc., but in determining who you want to listen to in table mode, from watching Dr. Cliff reviews, there seems to be some button pushing to choose who to listen to selectively, if you want to filter out other conversations a table.
It’s all in the semantics. If Chuck had simply said that he only needs 1 program in his More and it adjusts to his needs in all environments and stopped there, then OK, I don’t think anybody here (me included) would argue with him. But he didn’t stop there. Chuck went on to draw a parallel between what Oticon does and what Phonak does with Autosense. And because of this, this parallel caused confusion and needed to be clarified, that’s all.
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So if it’s understood to mean that Oticon has some kind of automation so users don’t have to fiddle around with anything in between environments except for volume change, then yes, in that sense, it’s the same set-it-and-forget-it approach either way, the Oticon way or the Phonak AutoSense way. And it’s only obvious NOW that it’s what Chuck meant.
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But if it’s misunderstood to mean that it’s the same as AutoSense in that Oticon will automatically change from 1 Oticon program to another Oticon program when sensing the environment change, like the Phonak AutoSense does, then this misunderstanding needs to be clarified that Oticon doesn’t change programs like AutoSense does.
So the way I read it, Jim (@SpudGunner ) misunderstood what Chuck (@cvkemp ) said to mean that it’s the later in #2 above → that Oticon can change between programs automatically like Phonak AutoSense does. So all I’m trying to clarify that the later implication in #2 is not true. But now that Chuck has clarified that the implication is simply #1, then OK, it’s clarified and hopefully it will no longer cause anymore confusion like before.
Yes and no I guess.
I’ve got the On and I’ve tried the App but can’t be bothered with it. I’m often without my phone.
My On seems to work great but now I’m wondering if it is moving between modes because I’m not using the App.
I don’t switch Mics off for Table Mode as I find it too quiet otherwise. I’m pretty sure Table Mode Mics can’t be switched off without the App. I’ve never tried.
I guess that could mean, you do need the App for the Roger On.
I vaguely remember Dr. Cliff or Matthew Allsop (the new Hearing Tracker YouTuber) demonstrating that you can lock the Roger On in a directional mode so that it doesn’t switch without unlocking it or without the user changing the pointing direction in the app).
I think the tone of the thread is basically that if you have good HA’s, you shouldn’t need to make any adjustments (and perhaps if you do, you’re wasting your time fiddling with your device or it’s not set up right, etc.). By “world,” I mean present “camp” or “culture” on the forum. Am just pointing out that there are lots of things that still need some manual control, like switching to a music program, using an accessory device that has different options, like the Roger On, or just plain cutting out unbearable noise that’s so irregular or so strong that built-in noise cancellation can’t overcome the noise enough. I trialed the Lumitys and I thought Autosense 5.0 did a very good job but just like you remarked about the Oticon On app, I was a bit depressed that for such a great hearing aid, the myPhonak app wasn’t better at making the great available options easier to use. I do go most of the time without touching my HA settings but there are at least several times each day when I want to change something, e.g., today to watch the College Football Playoffs via TV streamer and surround sound room speakers. It would be great if I could just tell Alexa, my iPhone, or whatever, “Switch to TV viewing mode” and be done with it. I think everyone wants HA’s that will adjust themselves as much as possible but whether we’ve arrived at that endpoint may depend greatly on how varied one’s hearing environment and hearing needs are. At least for my environments and needs, I’m not there yet.
Is this Phonak or Resound?
@Volusiano: Rightly or wrongly, this is what I understand @cvkemp to mean … that Oticons change programs like Phonak (… which they don’t).
[Addendum: When I come down off my high horse to Search this site for “Environmental adaptation”, it only pulls threads related to Jabra and Resound, not Oticon. Who owns the moniker, and does anyone have a link to “Oticon Environmental Adaptation? And what am I supposed to do with all these road apples I turned up?”]
Just like Starkey, Phonak, and Oticon offer the ability to integrate smart assistants (Siri, Google Home, Alexa), I’m imagining extending that interface to allow switching to a hearing aid accessory like a TV streamer. I think with Starkey or Oticon, you can actually speak to Alexa and tell her to switch to the intercom in your front doorbell to converse with someone who just rang your doorbell without having to get up and go to the front door. It would be neat, when one has multiple Bluetooth pairings with one’s HA’s, if there were a way through speaking to your HA’s, to tell your HA’s which BT pairing should now be the one to go live. Right now, several times a day I have to manually connect or disconnect BT connections to make the one I want go live.
So, I’m kind of going in reverse with hearing aids. Looking at them as a potential auditory interface to control a smart home, allowing you to answer a doorbell ring or start streaming from your TV just by making a verbal request. Various AR smart glasses are attempting to make a comeback. If that ever takes off, for HOH folks, HA’s might naturally be the auditory complement to such an interface.
At age 75, I’m almost reluctantly in the “set it because I cannot remember it” crowd. The worst (with my Phonak/Costco KS 10s) is fiddling with my L HA while trying to keep it in place on (and in) the shared-rent ear (the other tenants being my glasses and occasionally a mask). I’ve gone to wearing “straps around the head” rather than “straps around the ears” masks, and that helps a bit. The most irksome problem has been that careless taps on the earlobe sometimes awaken Siri and cause her to serenade me, usually with music that I’ve never, ever heard before. I know I could learn how to stop this from happening, but I’m too overwhelmed to learn how.
If you were able to talk to your HAs then they might be the size of an Apple watch.
@jbobp. One can already talk to one’s HA’s. The Phonak Lumity can be paired with an Apple Watch (or iPhone). Tap Control allows you to tap on your ear and invoke Siri (Google Home or Alexa, I believe with Android - haven’t carefully checked the Alexa options). The smart assistant that you talk to through 2-way communication via the HA’s can be heard to reply in your HA’s, the written response shows up at the same time on the Watch or the iPhone. The interaction depends on BT or Wi-Fi communication with the iPhone, the Watch is just serving as a relay (haven’t tried cellular connectivity yet).
So, the HA’s don’t have to be any bigger than a Lumity, which is a very small and light device. And the Lumity is not at the 4 nm process size yet and doesn’t use BT LE Audio to communicate with the Watch or iPhone as far as audio transmission goes. So, there’s lots of room for improvement in the power and speed with which HA’s might serve as a headset to interface with cloud intelligence. We’re still in the Model T days of A.I.
The Siri interaction with my Apple Watch is one of the things that I’ll really miss about picking the Omnias over the Lumitys as my new HA’s. Because the Apple Watch is not a MFi device, it can’t be paired directly with the Omnias and if I want to speak to my watch, I’ll either have to have the Phone Clip+ as an intermediary device or just talk directly to the Watch and listen directly to the Watch speakers in reply. The main reason for my choice of Omnia was wanting to go with a disposable battery that wouldn’t wear out after my warranty period is over and believing that a disposable battery-powered HA is a better choice to wear outdoors in extreme Texas summer heat, > 100 deg, > 110 deg F at times.