Any experience transfering settings between Phonak models

Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY]
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#1

Hi, all,

In reading up on the Phonak Target software, I see there’s a feature to transfer fittings between hearing aids. The documentation says that it will tell you what settings can and can’t be transferred before the transfer. I’ve asked numerous audiologists in the past about transferring my settings from old to new aids when I get new ones, and they’ve all passed it off as not doable or not worthwhile because of the significant differences between Phonak’s different platforms. It’s always annoyed me to essentially start from scratch every time I get a new pair, though, and now I see that Phonak has this transfer feature.

Has anyone tried this transfer feature? How successful was it? How much tweaking did you still have to do afterwards? And, most of all, how much did it make the over all sound quality coming out of the new aids sound like the older model? All I want here is, in normal situations, for things to basically sound the same with the new hearing aids as it did on the old ones. I know there will be some differences, but I don’t expect them to be drastic.

I’m now on 7+ months and two remakes of my current aids and ready to be done wit them and get them to the point where I’m happy with them. My hearing hasn’t changed between when I got the old ones and these, so the transfer feature feels worthwhile if it actually works. Thought I’d ask here about others’ experience with it before replacing my current fitting settings with a transfer from the old pair. We can always save the current fitting and roll back if needed.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Migrate KS10 to Audeo M
Paradise virto P90 - Marvel M90
#2

I’ve used this feature. They don’t transfer the settings identically as Altho both Phonak, they are different models but it’s pretty close.

You do have to make sure you have the right fitting formula and vent/s selected as it doesn’t change that part.

The features like NoiseBlock, WindBlock etc also need to be adjusted as they go back to default.

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#3

Thanks, Zebras. At this point, my new aids most likely just need some EQ and volume adjustments, and perhaps a little bit of change with compression – not sure about that last part yet. Sounds like I’d make nearly as much work with a transfer as I would to keep on the road I’m already on. I appreciate you sharing your experience wit this. I’ll keep it in my back pocket.

But it certainly sounds like I should strongly encourage (or insist) that my audiologist do this when I get my next pair in the future.

Thanks again.

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#4

Hi again, everyone,

Alright, I’m being very cautious here, and I wanted to ask a couple questions of the more experienced DIYers before I write anything out to the aids.

I’ve now got two saved sessions: one from my old Virto B aids that sound the way I like them and one from my current Virto M aids that need adjusting.

First, confirming my safety net: if things really go south, I think I can always load the saved Virto M session, connect to the aids, and when I connect and it asks me if I want to use the current settings from the hearing aids or reset them, choose the reset option. That will load the saved session back to the aids which I can then save. Is that correct?

Other question: I’m going to try this transfer thing. I’ve exported the fitting from the Virto B aids to a tfdata file. The Phonak docs are pretty silent on the transfer feature. I think the process should now be: (1) start a new session instead of opening a saved one, (2) import the fitting from the tfdata file using the fitting → transfer menu, and (3) connect to the Virto M aids. At this point, I’ll get that same question about whether to use the settings from the aids or reset them. I should choose the reset option. Is this correct? Or should I connect first then import the saved fitting from the file?

Once all that’s done, it sounds like, according to @zebras, I just need to make sure the fitting formula, vent type, whistle block, wind block, etc. are set the way I want them or the way they were set by my audiologist. Is that right?

Any other advice before I take the plunge on this would be very welcomed. I’m a techie, but I’ve never gone down this road before, and I’d really prefer to not to screw things up so badly that I have to have my audiologist fix them.

Thanks.

#5

I personally connect my Aids first.

This needs to be done before you import your settings, otherwise if you import setting first and then change things around, it’ll change the current settings.

You won’t ever screw things up so badly that your audiologist needs to sort you out. Just close everything if needed and start again.

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#6

Thanks, @Zebras. Yes, I should have considered the just “shut everything down” route if I need to back out. I’m more concerned about saving something to the aids and discovering that it’s not at all what I wanted, though. But if that happens, I just re-open my previous saved session and write it back out, I suppose.

So, to confirm, I’ll open a new session, connect, choose the “reset” option, set the fitting formula, whistle block, wind block, etc., then finally import the fittings from the old aids. Is that correct?

Thanks very much.

#7

You don’t need to reset the Aids because as soon as you import your settings, the settings will change anyway so won’t matter what was on the Aids previously.

Good luck.

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#8

Thanks again, @zebras, you’re awesome! Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your experience and advice on this seemingly poorly documented feature. One final question since I don’t know much about fitting formulas other than the few things I’ve found on the PhonakPro blog and in the reference library. Should I use the fitting formula from the new aids even though I’m importing settings from the old ones? Or should I use the fitting formula from the old ones from which I’m bringing in the fittings? I plan to use the whistle block, noise block, wind block, etc. from the old ones since I’m comfortable with those values. But the fitting formula is still a bit of a mystery to me. Thank you again for your advice and for patiently answering my oh-so-many questions.

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#9

I’ve personally used the same fitting formula but I guess you could try another fitting formula and see how it sounds and also transfer the settings?

#10

Sorry, when you say use “the same fitting formula”, do you mean the same one that was already on the new ones? Or the same one that went with the fitting I’m importing from the old ones? I think you mean the one from the old aids, but I want to make sure.

And if I do try a different one, you mentioned that changing the fitting formula changes a bunch of the fitting values. So, if I do try a different fitting formula, I can just import the fittings again immediately after switching to a new formula, right?

#11

You can just play around with the software to see what happens. You don’t even need to connect your Aids at this point. You can import / export settings as well without any Aids being connected.

#12

Thank you so much, @zebras! That was so frighteningly easy that I’m laughing at myself for being so hesitant to try it. The only things that didn’t transfer were the noise block, whistle block, wind block, and sound relax settings for the programs plus one of my manual programs since the Virto M aids only seem to be able to take three manual programs, and I had four on the Virto B aids.

Two quick questions for things that still need a little tweaking from the DIY experts here.

  1. The over-all volume is a little higher on these aids than it was on the Virto B. What’s the best way to adjust the over-all volume across the board for all frequencies, gain levels, and programs in Target? I see the giant table in the fine tuning tab for MPO & gain as well as the power setting in the global tuning tab. I suspect I don’t want to change the global tuning setting since it’s set at a very logical sounding “100% of prescribed”.

  2. Similarly, in my Bluetooth streaming programs for speech, music, and phone, the right ear is slightly quieter than the left. What’s the best way to adjust the over-all volume for a specific program?

I suspect the answers to the two questions above might be very similar.

Thanks again! I’m so happy with how much better these sound!

#13

This is how I raise or lower the volume. Selecting 90% or another % of target gain actually only reduces the high frequencies so I never bother with that and leave it at 100%.

EDIT - you can select ‘all programs’ or manually do each individual program.

#14

Thanks again, @zebras. Worked like a charm. There was one case where I bumped up MPO and gain on one of the Bluetooth streaming programs 4 DB on one ear (they weren’t balanced), but MPO only would go up three as if it was maxed out. I don’t think I need to worry about that, though.

Last question about this: what exactly is MPO? I know it’s max power output. Is it sort of a ceiling to keep things from getting any louder than that particular setting, and everything after that point will get compressed?

Thanks again! You all on this forum have taken a very unpleasant situation and made it right for me.

#15

I believe you’re correct. When I had analog Aids, I couldn’t stand next to a road drill (might just be a UK thing? A road drill I think is around 100 dB?) and have a conversation with my sister. With digital and the MPO set, I can hear my sister next to a road drill. My sister struggles to hear me tho but I can hear her really well.

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#16

@keith,

I’m so grateful to find your post. I’m on my 3rd set of Phonaks. Why is every purchase difficult? Why can’t they plug in the old ones, and move ahead?

DaveL
Toronto

#17

@daveL, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said the exact same thing to family and coworkers. If I have to get a new pair of hearing aids every few years to own a pair that are in warranty, why must it be such a frustrating and stressful experience? And moreover, is it really that hard for the manufacturers to make a new pair that, in calm, normal situations, will sound like the old ones did? I can understand having algorithms that improve intelligibility, especially in noisy situations, but at the end of the day, I just want my wife and kids to sound the same when I’m at home with them in a peaceful house as they did with my previous aids. Just because I get a new pair of hearing aids, I don’t want the whole world to sound different. Surely, some of the smart R&D folks at the hearing aid companies must understand that.

As you can see from this thread, I was hesitant to get myself a Noahlink Wireless and the fitting software and try changing things myself. I mean, it was my first time writing out to a pair of hearing aids, and if I screwed it up somehow (which is hard to do, by the way), I’d have to confess that I was doing something that I wasn’t supposed to be doing in the first place. Having done it, I’m so glad I did, and I’d encourage anyone who’s half way technical and who’s an experienced hearing aid wearer to give it a go. I also can’t understand why audiologists are so hesitant to use the transfer fittings feature of the software to help give new aids a shot at sounding as much like old ones as possible from the start. I’m sure there must be a reason, but it’s beyond me what it is. That did the trick for me. I’m still fighting with some shell size and vent size issue – they’re customs which introduces other challenges – but after 9 months of having these aids, they’re the best they’ve sounded yet.

And the best part is, if you do mess things up or simply are unsure what something means, the folks in this forum are always happy to help.

I’m so glad I could give you some encouragement with my post. For now on, as long as I stick with the same brand, it’ll be transferring of settings for me.

BTW, I told my audiologist that I had gotten the Noahlink Wireless device and fitting software and transferred the settings and how happy I was with the result. I don’t know why I expected him to be concerned or bothered by that. He was actually happy to hear that I had this success. So, as others have suggested on here, if you take this route, be honest with your audiologist. Chances are they won’t have a problem with it.

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#18

keith I have a wonderful audiologist. The last one was terrible and I was an impatient for 8 years.

My hearing gets about 5% worse every year.

I want to stay in touch. I have no knowledge about self-programming.

DaveL

#19

This is valuable information, because as soon as I have my Noahlink, I want to transfer most of the settings from my Bolero V70 aids to my newly acquired Bolero M90 aids.

This forum is so great!

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#20

Just remember you’ll need to connect your Venture models to Phonak target and transfer them (export, settings) to your PC, you won’t be able to do that with Noahlink wireless, you’ll need iCube ll or HiPro.

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