11 BIG LIES of THE INDUSTRY

Wow – The HA industry is going into the same type of changes the computer industry went through in the early 1980’s. I was there, and this has many similarities to then:

Radio Shack insisted in locking each PC, so if you opened the case, they would void the warranty. Apples cost more, but were open. PCs from IBM and other compatibles (like my company, Columbia Data Products) allowed add-ons and promoted modular support and repairs. RS is Dead. Apple and IBM PC’s cost more, and still wiped them out. Even IBM and Apple tried to “control” who could sell their products, or provide support. Luckily for them, they lost complete control.

– Anyone want a TRS-80, -3, -16 ?? No?? Closed systems won’t work as a business model.
– Ever HAVE to call an IBM, Apple, or any PC manufacturer to add to, or repair these devices?? No?? Restricting access to users is crazy.
– Calling any specific dealer to “program” a computer?? No?? That was the whole basis for the PC revolution that used PCs to displace datacenter providers.

Still, programming your own PC operating system settings is a bit nuts, unless you know what you are doing, or get some professional advice so you don’t turn your PC into a brick. Same goes for your HA’s – Allow the volume to go too high for too long, your hearing loss will get worse. OTOH, if properly “fitted”, you’d never need to overdrive the volume.

(That is excepting the intentional bass deficiencies built into ambient amplification that unfortunately, was carried over by poor design into Bluetooth HA implementations. – See my other posts on this Bass subject, and how to overcome these problems.)

I can pretty much attest to not doing your own repairs on complicated proprietary devices like BMWs as well. OTOH, with great YouTube Videos, I’ve replaced most all of the front end parts on my 745i, the window motors and regulators, etc.

How?? Just use the great advice on the internet. “Use”: ==->> Know when to use which advice, and when to leave it alone and don’t mess with it. This is a skill everyone needs to learn at an early age. All the most detailed information is freely available to everyone today, and will be more so in the future. Learning which sources to trust, which you can use, and which you shouldn’t is the future’s most important skill and essential to being brilliant. That also means that, for many subjects, you will never be qualified enough to be great, and safe, or require much more skill than you are likely to gain anytime soon. I’ve worked with brilliant engineers for decades that I’ve employed. Sometimes, I know more than they do, but most often, I’d be a fool to not defer to their judgement, since they have much more context to make those decisions. Still, unless they’ve studied that area of an operating system like Windows, they don’t have enough expertise either, to make critical design decisions.

Here’s what I predict for the HA industry: The hardware will ALL become a very inexpensive commodity. Your cell phone is far more advanced than all the computers that took us to the moon and back. Already, the hardware that is being produced by the CE manufacturers is far more capable than most all HA’s. That said, programming them properly and perfectly, will really remain much more of an art, and you will have professionals that can take that hardware, and design / program it to do more amazing things than you can imagine today. For instance, I listening now to the the TV from a separate room, and even with my “default 100% hearing with no losses”, I’d never be able to hear or understand what was being said. Already, when getting on a flight, we expect to be able to tune out virtually all the sound of the engines. But, can we also hear the drink cart choices?? Nope… not engineered for that–yet. But, it will be in the future. Want to hear what they are saying in first class?? Yup, you will be able to hear most of that as well.

But, before any of this is possible, both engineers and professional, artful, HA “fitters” and engineers have a lot of work to do. I suspect that I’m always going to want to use a professional to properly tune my HA so I can hear perfectly as is possible. With HA, I’m close to 100% of usable sound today, even with a loss. Even though I replaced my whole front end suspension on my BMW, no way could I possibly align it perfectly and safely. But, with the right equipment and an expert, it only took 15 minutes to perfectly tune that car. HA’s will be no different.

Most all these crazy business practices you see today, will kill off whoever practices them. Used computers were also unheard of, and an anomaly until a few people like Alex Randall from Boston Computer Exchange, (think=early EBay) and me that started Godfather’s Used Computers, popularized them.

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Yeah but it’s not quite a correct analogy. It’s less a case of knowing how to adjust the HA but more knowing why changes need to be made. There are many people who do not want to do this on their own.

And therein is the issue with this thread - there are many over generalizations that basically say how horrible audi and HAS are and that is not helpful. Are there people that will take advantage or are not effective? I am sure. And there are many that are very knowledgeable and helpful. Trying to scare people away from going to am audi is not helpful - it’s hurtful.

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I’m strongly suggesting that there’s a huge role for the HA professionals. The learning curve as a user is extremely steep. Even if you can, it really isn’t worth the time to become that much of an expert as a one-off learning exercise. And, it does take equipment as well, for instance to do a real world in-canal hearing test. Knowing how to use the experts though, is key. A little common sense is all you need, if you can take away the mindset of “the expert should be boss and make the decisions, not just advise”. If it doesn’t sound right, research it if it matters or you care.

I was told by the VA Audio experts, “You will never get great music sound from your HA, mainly because the bass response is > 100 HZ.” Bull… Add occlusion to molds while using bluetooth, and you get perfectly tuned sound all the way down to 8 Hz, So, that was a case where I didn’t initially know enough to even challenge the experts. Even ALL the Phonak specs and docs say that the limit is > 100 HZ, What they didn’t say though, is that this spec ONLY covered ambient amplification and NOT bluetooth, that had NO limit. I suspected occlusion would work better, and someone on this forum told me to ask for the silicon pulgs that were made to block the ports. No one at the VA knew that would fix the bass problem, either. Or, that the HAs were capable of perfect music. Why?? Just try it with any “properly fitted molds”. Music will always be missing the < 100 Hz, so no bass. Add occlusion, and the RWE goes down to < 8 HZ!! But, no one tried it, and the manufacturer never told anyone, either.

Experts’ roles should always be only to ADVISE and NEVER to make the DECISIONS. Think about it and you can likely name hundreds of significant examples. To do otherwise, is to pay triple for the advice – once to the expert and then twice of that fee, wasted on what “could have been”. Not smart enough or confident enough?? Some of your friends likely are, and would love to help and play that role if you only ask, and then let them help advise you.

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Since I expect that your HAs were setup based on the vent size of your molds, blocking them I expect will be increasing the total amplified sound since far less is “leaking out” of vents; thus since you had commented earlier in thread about potentially hurting oneself with over amplification, you might want to consider turning down volume manually when listening to BT streamed music that has significant bass. I certainly understand and appreciate the desire for better music experience and once my new molds arrive will experiment myself with blocking vents.

That was a conversation @DaaBoss and I had some time ago.
Most mfg’s have what are called "select-A-Vent"molds.
If you get a fixed vent mold, you can have your audi give you a kit, which contains plugs to seal the vent.

It will give some decent bass.

My best success was using open domes, and inserting "Hearos"earplugs behind them, pushing them in just enough to occlude.
YMMV

Hi DaaBoss. What a great post. I give it an A++. I was also there during the “good old days” you described and I also watched the business models for the development of computers and software fail just as you described and are predicting will also happen to the hearing aid industry. Something that I think is also worth mentioning is the programming languages. Originally, it was machine code that had to be done by hand followed by assembler code used to generate the machine code for the computer. Both of these type of programming took a special skill set (understanding the computer and the ability to logically design a program to perform the desired task). Look where this programming moved to: Fortran, Cobol, APL, C, C++, etc). Look at the applications that have been developed (independent and otherwise) to solve just about any problem you can think of. The programmers do not need to have an intimate knowledge of the actual computer. They just need to know a programming language and have the skill to logically define what application they wish to develop. Examples: Spread Sheets, Word Processors, etc. Also, should not forget Digital Signal Processors (DSPs) and the software that was written for them to control gas pumps, elevators, automobile systems, etc. As you pointed out, attempts by Apple, IBM and others to have proprietary (“family jewels”) hardware, programming languages, operating systems, development tools, standards, protocols, service and repair technicians, etc failed and rightfully so.

Let us not forget that the dealership mechanics cannot repair complicated proprietary devices in a car. They have to replace them. Also keep in mind that instead of YouTube Videos, they have a piece of test equipment that is both hardware and software (that can be purchased by car owner) that plugs into a receptacle in the car and does a good job of diagnosing the problem for the mechanic. Need we say more about the future of hearing aids and the fitting there of? I probably will not live long enough to see what it will look like in the not to distant future.
Thanks again for elucidating a subject that is in sorely need of it.

Not without dropping many $$$ to you…

Nothing wrong with educating people about alternative options as well as the MANY “car salesman” tricks deployed while seeking help…the kind of help we can do ourselves. I can work an equalizer, I can tune my own hearing aids.
But of course I expected professionals to come forward and “defend” themselves on this thread.
You know, more than most, how corrupt this industry is, how often do you speak of it? Likely not at all.

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Are you suggesting I’m a hearing specialist? That’s pretty funny. Thanks for the compliment :wink:

Although I have no expertise in HAs at all, I would chip in with the fact that you can get a pair of KS10s = Phonak Paradise 90, for 1300€ in Costco, whereas the half dozen hearing aid specialist shops I visited quoted me 3500€ for the same, suggests to me that people with hearing difficulties are being taken advantage of. I do realise that there is a lot of research bla, bla, bla, but I am sceptical that it warrants such an exorbitant price which is completely out of reach for a huge percentage of the population. This is very sad. How many pensioners are living semi-isolated, withdrawing from vital social life because of physically not being able to participate in it due to their hearing loss. I am 56. My hearing is crap. I am conscious of avoiding certain social events which I previously enjoyed, despite having my KS10, because I know i won’t be able to manage. The fact that in the UK HAs are available on the Health Service is outstanding. But it isn’t the case here in Spain or in many other countries. If Phonak can do a deal with Costco to sell their products at almost a third of the price, something surely is amiss, is it not?

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Costco because of what it is has the ability to absorb a lot of the cost because of the way its set up. It’s the same thing that small business owners feared when Walmart first arrived. Individual businesses can’t compete with that. It may not be proof that the public is getting ripped off. It’s the responsibility of the individual to be an educated consumer. If you just go in to the first place you see and pay an exorbitant price, well who’s fault is that. Like buying a car. Some people pay sticker price and others take the time, do the research, and pay thousands below sticker price

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I waited too long to get hearing aids. Then I decided to get one to save money. I’m on a much better path now.

Costco brought their hearing aids to Canada very recently.
I had several concerns.
The person that fits and adjusts them is so important. Would they be skilled?
What did Costco really sell? I was fixed on picking the right hearing aid make and model.
Finally was the price difference due to lower quality of hearing aids, or less skilled help?

I was over-thinking it.

With every corrupt market there is always someone who stands up to defend it while appearing neutral.
This thread is about dumping on HA scams, either support it or defend it…or sit this one out. Playing the middle field is a classic tactic. I Live in CA, your agenda is more than obvious.

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@markk: California is a market unto itself, unlike any other!

Hi @markk, WELL said.

If you want to get angry at a market get angry at the HA manufacturers - they are the ones who set prices not the private audis. Do the audis take advantage? I image many do. However they aren’t the ones initially charging far more than the aids cost. Similar to drug companies charging thousands for medications.

And if you want to talk sides the I’m on the side of the person coming to this forum for support. Seeing a thread that says you can only do it yourself and that hearing specialists are all trying to screw you over isn’t helpful. Specific things to avoid or look for are good. Blanket generalizations about a whole field are not, as blanket generalizations are often ill fitting to any group as a whole…

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no message after all

Regarding the low frequency output; you can seal the canals up as much as you like, but if the receiver doesn’t produce a significant response below 50Hz, you aren’t going to get much bass.

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You are missing the whole point, This IS the "angry thread. I am saying stay out of it.

Good for you, you have hundreds of other threads to help people.

There you go, thanks for reinforcing my position.
This is ONE thread dogging on the industry and all those who support it’s status quo. No need for you, or anyone else, to try and bring it down and stifle open conversation about the PROBLEM you just acknowledged.
Again, just stay out of this.

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OK then, Try this on for size:
11 Really BIG Lies of the Timeshare Industry

Lie 1: Buying a timeshare will save you money on your next vacation. FACT: You will spent more on maintenance fees. Its in the small print. You must pay the maintenance fees even if you can’t get the time off for vacation.

Lie 2: You can resell your timeshare for a profit. FACT: It will cost you even more just to get out of the contract.

Lie 3: Timeshares offer better accommodations than a 5 star hotel. FACT: Accommodations at a timeshare are no better than Motel 6.

Lie 4: Your timeshare includes use if the golf course. FACT: Use of the golf course will cost you dearly each game you play.

Lie 5: Your timeshare includes a limousine service. FACT: What the salesman meant was that there’s a city bus stop nearby.

Lie 6: Your timeshare is 1,200 square feet. FACT: The unit they showed you had connecting doors open on both sides to other units. Your unit is only 400 square feet.

Lie 7: The cost of hotels will continue to raise while the cost of your timeshare will not. FACT: The salesman is hoping you don’t ask about maintenance fees and forgot to enter that really big initial payment into the equation.

Lie 8: You actually own your timeshare and your children will inherited it when you are gone. FACT: Flat out lie.

Lie 9: “Buy a timeshare now to lock-in a once in a lifetime deal. The price will double tomorrow”. FACT: The salesman knows if you think about it too long you won’t buy it.

Lie 10: “The only reason you are not buying a timeshare is because you can’t really afford a timeshare. Show us and your wife that you are a real man of wealth and buy the timeshare”. FACT: Salesman uses a last ditch effort to humiliate a sucker into buying.

Lie 11: “Life is short. You really owe it to yourself and your beautiful wife to buy a timeshare. You want to vacation every year? yes, a timeshare is for you. …”

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