@d_Wooluf: I understand that, and I accept its veracity: but what is said in a webinar doesn’t make it the company’s stated mission, that’s all I’m saying.
This is probably the most useful comment made to date. And I would applaud the company roundly if it explained itself in the following terms:
But the company doesn’t say that. Instead, it promises revolutionary but nondescript technical advances, rather than specific results. For Whisper, these results (superior speech comprehension in noise) entail certain compromises that people who desire them may or may not be willing to make (carrying an external “brain”, rudimentary connectivity/streaming, lack of rechargeability, limited HCP flexibility, etc).
Whisper is a specialized niche offering that the company is trying to market as a hearing panacea.There’s the BEEf🐝 IMO,
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You don’t think that’s a little adversarial? You think these people are shills?
Harping? It’s been mentioned. You’ve seen the list of updates. What’s your problem with it then? Specifically. What would you have hoped to see?
@d_Wooluf, don’t waste your time. @Volusiano is the biggest Oticon fanboy on this forum. No one, and I mean no one, is a more of a self-perceived expert on Oticon vs. every other manufacturer than he is.
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Here we go again! Mod, can we not please have a civil discussion about Whisper without name-calling?
(Jostling one another about is all in good fun … then comes this guy out of nowhere!)
Once a discussion ends up with one side not wanting to participate courteously in exchanging ideas and opinions anymore in a civil manner, but would rather resort to name calling to further the discussion, I will take the high road and not engage in that kind of tit for tat anymore with those individuals.
But I will continue to express my opinion on the subject matter nevertheless, and of course in a civil manner, because I won’t let that hostility stifle my freedom to say what I want to say. If I have negative opinions that I want to express on this forum, it’s going to be about the subject matter and about the HA companies, and it will never be about individuals.
Of course some people won’t like to hear what I say. And that’s OK. They can express their disapproval of my opinions, just like I can express my disapproval of their opinions. That’s what this forum is for, sharing and expressing opinions, as long as we all do it in a civil manner.
@nqq98392, as just a casual observer, I agree with you. Also, I get the feeling that the people associated with this forum know little about AI in general and even less about the HW & SW need to develop an AI solution. I apologize in advance if I am stepping on anyone’s feelings. If I did, it may be wise to keep feelings off the floor. 
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@BeachBum: FYI @Volusiano has a Masters in Electrical Engineering.
Expressing a different opinion is not adversarial. If you think it’s wrong, then you say it’s wrong. Whether it’s really wrong or not is up for readers to judge. Why would I want to keep silent and not express what I disagree with what some people are saying? This forum is not about trying to be agreeable with everything just for the sake of avoiding being adversarial.
And I want to note here that I NEVER called anyone shills. YOU brought up that word yourself.
Since this is a civil and clear question, I will answer it because I hope that you’re genuinely wanting to understand more in asking me with this question, not because it’s just a rhetorical question and you don’t really care to hear my answer. If the later, don’t read the paragraphs below. Others who are interested can read it. But if it’s the earlier, then since you asked, I’ll answer.
I thought I made it clear in my post # 397 on this thread about my problem with the list of updates provided by x475aws. So please go back and read that post. But to expand further to your question “Specifically, what would you have hoped to see?” → I would like to see not just minor incremental updates as shown on the list, but specifically (again) new major technology updates that if it had been done by other companies who don’t use the brain, it would have required them to develop a new hardware platform (that will take a few years) to support those new major technology updates on.
Again, and I feel like I’m repeating this so many times already but yet, some people still don’t get it, but Whisper said that "we chose the brain, not just for the needed power to support AI, but ALSO because the brain will let us very quickly support and download new major technology updates without needing to wait for a new hardware platform to be developed to support those updates. The brain gives us that distinct advantage that none of the other HA mfgs has. My contention, again, is that if Whisper can’t deliver new major technology updates (not simpler incremental enhancements and bug fixes) that quickly, then really, having the brain for that reason is not really any distinct advantage.
Here’s an analogy. One auto mfg comes up with a new car model, but their existing factory with highly customized tools to support a highly efficient factory can’t support building that new car model because newly customized tools in a bigger space are required to build the new model. So they have to wait 3 years until they finish building a new mfg factory specifically geared with newly customized tools to support the building of that new car model before they can build, release and sell that new car model.
Now Whisper auto mfg comes along and says we’re going to build a much bigger and expensive mfg facility that can build any new car model we wish to build very quickly. The tools in there, instead of being customized tools geared toward each specific car model, they’re designed to be smart tools that can be retrofitted very quickly to build any new car models without having to wait for 3 years like our competitors. Better yet, you don’t have to buy our new car models. Just send in your old car and we convert it into a brand spanking new model within a week for you, free of charge, as long as you lease your car from us.
By the way, the AI self driving feature in our car is the best in the industry bar none. The only trade-off you’d have to make is that the car will be as big as a semi truck. But we need all that space to put in a supercomputer to make the AI self driving feature best-in-class, so it’s well worth it. And don’t forget, every time we come up with a new major car model, just bring your old car in and we’ll replace it with the free major car model for you within a week, because it’s part of the lease deal anyway. And we’ll come out with new car models very fast all the times, so it’s well worth it.
So auto enthusiast who like to own newer and better car models as soon as they’re announced signed up to lease the Whisper auto, expecting to get new major car models very often and very quickly once they turn in the old model for a free upgrade. So they got their car (or shall I say semi-truck) and 10 months later, it’s still the same car. OK, it’s been to the Whisper shop a few times to make it go a little faster, make the AC a little cooler, sip a little less gas. But nevertheless, it’s still the same old car, albeit slightly improved here and there.
So where are the brand new major car model upgrades that had been promised? You told me you build a big expensive factory with better tools with so you can mfg and release each new major car model very quickly and I don’t even have to pay for it, but what good does that do if I still have the same car 10 months later?
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@Volusiano: Exac… 
! Oops!
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SpudGunner: FYI, I have a BSEE from Duke University with a minor in computer science. Also, worked for decades in HW development, SW development and the development of the first micro (imbedded) processor…So? You surprise me. I didn’t realize in this forum the focus was on someone’s credentials as opposed to merit of their opinions.
@BeachBum: It was you who called people’s credentials into question with the post I’ve quoted. Unlike yourself,@Volusiano would not tout his own qualifications, so I merely took the liberty of doing it for him.
@SpudGunner: I did not call into question anyone’s credentials. I just expressed my feeling (observations) based on what I have read in this forum regarding AI. In all honesty, I have never cared about any person’s credentials or rank. I guess you felt it was incumbent on you to protect @Volusiano from an attack from me which didn’t exist. So, carry on worshiping Oticon and bashing Whisper.
I feel that these choices of words are not too far from the “fanboy” name calling so I’m going to refrain from going down on this road as well.
@Volusiano : I’m no longer interested in discussing Whisper on this forum. The proponents of the device are too thin-skinned when they find themselves on the deficient side of a rational debate, so much so that they have to resort to name-calling tantrums.
[I would further observe that things usually devolve rapidly immediately after @x475aws chooses to inject one of his venomous posts into a thread.
Congratulations on another kill.]
My own thoughts are that some people contributing to this forum have too much time on their hands. 
I ask that @SpudGunner show a little compassion for folks who have spent thousands on their experimental hearing devices and who might understandably be a little sensitive to feedback from people who tend to underscore the drawbacks, which have been amply discussed.
FWIW, I don’t think, contra @Volusiano, that other hearing devices offer “good enough” speech in noise discrimination. This may be because my hearing makes me a harsher judge. Frankly, in my personal experiences with the best Oticon and other manufacturers have to offer, I was appalled by how mediocre the speech in noise discrimination was and is, which is what led me to Whisper.
Contra @SpudGunner, I maintain that it is indeed one of the major objectives of the Whisper project to deliver significantly better speech in noise discrimination, and I believe that they have delivered on that front. Can that be further improved, and should features that are now standard on other hearing aids be implemented ASAP, the answer is “yes.”
But it shouldn’t detract from the accomplishment: they’ve delivered speech-in-noise discrimination significantly superior to that of the big 6 who have much greater resources at their disposal. This isn’t “cheating:” the folks at Whisper have traded some limitations for some others. That’s the way life (and physics) works.
Now is anyone else excited about the clinical trials involving drugs that cause the cochlear hair cells to regrow? Cliff Olson mentions them in one of his YouTube videos. My ENT, before he retired, claimed said that this “wouldn’t happen in our lifetime.” Maybe it will!
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Seeing as you asked, oto-413 (Otonomy) is the one I have hopes for. It may not help me hear a sparrow fart but it might help me make more sense out of what i do hear (a bit like Whisper - he says in an attempt to stay on-topic). I’ve gone off Frequency Therapeutics. If they eventually come through it will be a pleasant surprise. Audion seem to be moving in slo-mo.
If it eventually happens it might come out of nowhere I think. Lots of university labs and start-ups chipping away at it. My ENT said it was flat-out impossible but that was a long time ago.
This is the most comprehensive response on this forum an I can’t agree more. I like the Whisper because of it’s noise discrimination, period! All of it’s short comings are superfluous, but would be nice to have. I suggest trying them and make your own comparison. Without that comparison there is an inherent bias JM0. Just as I have an opinion, everyone is entitled to theirs. Now start the rock throwing… Lol!
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I guess I am failing to see why a thread titled, “User Review of Whisper HA’s”, should devolve into any debate. It certainly doesn’t promote leaving a “review” if only to be debated for leaving one. Like the old saying… opinions are like butt holes, everybody’s got one and they are all a little different.
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Sorry that it’s taken me a couple of weeks to post a follow up question but my time has not been my own lately and again, thanks for your explanation.
When does frequency lowering come into play? Should I be pursuing this with my audiologist at my appointment this week and asking him how he’s addressing my needs without frequency lowering and if I should be considering aids with frequency lowering when I buy my next pair?
Any help is greatly appreciated. 
