@jonifoz: No, I didn’t miss your qualifying statements … Myself, I would have preferred reading about what may have gone wrong in your fitting that made the Oticon devices (which are no better nor worse than any other hearing aid made by the Big 6) perform so badly for you.
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I don’t believe there was anything wrong with the fitting. The same audi has fit me with 4 different pairs of hearing aids. Two were Phonak, two were Oticon. Phonak were wonderful; Oticon not so much.
For the record, I have worn hearing aids for almost 30 years and feel I have a lot of experience. I have had Starkey, Resound, Siemens (Signia) 2 pairs, tested Oticon, and have now had 2 pairs of Phonak. I only did what I suggest anyone with hearing loss should do. Try as many aids from different manufacturers as you can.
I’m getting frustrated having to repeat this-- not every manufacturer’s aids work for every person. Oticon may work for you, but not for me. Phonak may work for me, but not for you. I do find it interesting, however, that you accuse me of criticizing Oticon. You assume that if Oticon isn’t working for me it’s because of the fitting, despite the fact that my knowledgeable audi has 40 years of experience and the 2 pairs of Phonaks I’ve been fitted with by this audi have been amazing.
By continuing to criticize Phonak, you are doing the same thing you accuse me of doing.
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This is very true.
I’ve gone to Oticon from Phonak as I hear better with Oticon.
My Step Mum went from Signia to Phonak to Oticon and prefers Phonak.
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@SpudGunner I’d like to add an FYI, which will be my last comment on this subject.
My audi has a contract with the VA, and probably 90% of the hearing aids he fits are Oticon. He is a huge fan of the brand, and suggested I try it the first time I came in.
The only reason I trialed Oticon the second time I came in is because he again suggested I try Oticon (different model).
My point is that this is not a situation where the audi is trying to push Phonak. In fact, I had to be pretty insistent just to get him to order a pair for me. Like me, he was amazed at how well the Phonak have worked for me, and has actually fitted a few more pairs of Phonaks for his former Oticon patients.
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Being an Electronics and Telecomms engineering background and having otosclerosis in both hears and having had a stapedectomy a few years back, I have good understanding of hearing, gains and curves but am reasonably new to the hearing aid landscape. I am trying to make sense of the fitting procedures and I did some comparisons earlier of the fitting formulae. As in the example below, identical audiograms and a standard fitting formula (NAL-NL2) produces drastically different target output graphs on two devices
Also, the manufacturers recommended formulae produce quite different targets too.
What I am trying to get to is that unless you set two devices to the same output target curve, you are unlikely to get a comparable sound experience from any two devices and it may be that it is not the physical device capabilities or the audiologist’s competence that people dislike but the manufacturers interpretation of the target sound curve. A bit like the Speyside whiskies, while all the distilleries use roughly the same ingredients they end with vastly different tasting whiskies.
This definitely sounds like the wrong target curve. I am having a similar issue with my Jabra Pro 10s. They are set with the NAL-NAL2 curve (the blue line on the first figure) and have almost no base and little in the mid range with lots of high frequency which is very uncomfortable. This would definitely make the male voices dissappear.
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I don’t know the ins and outs but Phonak even with every feature turned off, Phonak cut out too much.
Oticon let’s me hear more stuff including background noise.
Phonak I used NAL1 Altho tried all fitting formulas with no improvement.
Oticon I use VAC+ which I think Oticon only have?
@Volusiano will be able to explain how Oticon work in terms of hearing more?
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Hi @Levo! I also have a background in electrical engineering and did a stapedectomy on one of my ears. I also like graphs and messing with the aids programs lol. I totally agree with you: I once compared an Oticon OPN 1 to a More 1 using the exact same music program and could not hear any difference whatsoever. Given that my music programs are as “analog” as possible and the receivers are exactly the same, I guess there wasn’t much else to expect from that test. I also compared the stock music programs from Oticon More 1 and Phonak Lumity: quite different targets… What I infer is that the hardware in those high end HAs seems reasonably similar, with more divergence in the software implementation and conceptual choices in digital processing.
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Opn doesn’t have the myMusic program like the More, so how did you get the same as the myMusic has replaced the Opn music program?
I think that there could be an issue of the physiology of the impaired ear here. This is a really complex area and of course still subject to research. I have read on here and it has been pointed out to me that 2 people can have the same pure tone thresholds - measured via an audiogram but one of them could have much better hearing in noise. Could it also be that the individual faring far worst with over-amplification of sounds with the Oticon has a physiology whereby their sensitivity and capability to amplify sounds - by having more intact outer hair cells, works against them when wearing the Oticon with the open philosophy.?
Conversely it could explain why those in the Oticon camp fare well - perhaps their ear physiology is such that they need extra amplification and are happy with the open philosophy - because they have less sensitivity - more impaired outer hair cells.
Of course, I could be talking complete tosh, but I think probably that an accurate diagnosis of the impaired ear is something that is probably limited by current equipment - other than the audiogram and SIN tests etc.
This is a good point. I’m not trying to answer for @e1405 here, but I can only guess that it’s because the More MyMusic program was not released until August of 2021, while the initial release of the More was in January of 2021. Before MyMusic, the More was using the same built-in Music program that the OPN/S have. So maybe the comparison was done when the original Music program was still available in the More. And if you delay and not update the More firmware that has MyMusic inside until a much later date, then the Music program would still be around until then for comparison. So I’m guessing that @e1405 was talking about OPN Music vs More Music, not More MyMusic vs OPN MyMusic because OPN MyMusic doesn’t exist.
I think Oticon’s biggest mistake is to replace the legacy Music program with MyMusic altogether too hastily. They should have just left both options there for people to choose which one they prefer.
@jonifoz : I’m not suggesting anything of the sort, either … it’s just that I find “hate” and “horrible” are strong words for a brand that gives good performance to many (as does Phonak). I still would have been interested to know the specific shortcomings that would prompt you to use such strong wording.
The one anecdote you recounted is not very revealing, IMO… In the final analysis, I am just happy that you’ve found devices that let you hear.
Part of this can be due to “brain age” as well. We lose an ability in our brain to disregard the noise. I used to fly, and being able to sort out the traffic on the radio was a critical skill. Also talking on the phone at remote sites with lousy phone connections. Didn’t seem to be a problem. I have heard some recordings of pilot interactions with ATC recently and I recognize that 35 years later, I have lost it. Noise in AM radio was not a problem 40 years ago. I am far more likely to shut it off now.
WH
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[quote=“Levo, post:554, topic:71341”]
What I am trying to get to is that unless you set two devices to the same output target curve, you are unlikely to get a comparable sound experience from any two devices and it may be that it is not the physical device capabilities or the audiologist’s competence that people dislike but the manufacturers interpretation of the target sound curve.[/quote] I agree.
I’m not surprised to read comments that range from,
‘This is a step backwards’, to
‘The new HA is an incremental step not worth the price of entry’ to
‘The new HA is revolutionary’.
I’m not surprised to read comments like, ‘Brand A is much better than Brand B/C/D…,’ though I much prefer ‘Brand A is better for me than Brand B has been.’
There are a couple of ways to deal with the apparent fact that the biggest differences in HAs may lie in the manufacturer’s curves. One way is to test lots of aids, but set all the aids under consideration to the same curve. and try to discern which differences matter most to the shopper. The other is to do some trials with the manufacturer’s setting as modified by the HCP and choose what seems best without letting some mythical ‘best’ be the enemy of ‘Hey, this is good!’.
The best, after all, is a moving target.
I got Jabra Pro 10s 3-4 weeks ago. Cost was a big factor. An audiologist at Costco who helped me in the past was part of my reason for going with Costco. The warranty was a factor. Convenience was a factor. M&RIE was a big factor
I’m really happy with them, primarily because of the accessories. I like TV, and I like the TV streamer. I don’t need the Closed Captions much! That’s a much bigger deal than I imagined it would be. I attribute my happiness to ReSound, even though I know all the other manufacturers offer a TV streamer.
I also thought the Multi-Mic would be helpful, and it looks to me as if ReSound is the only vendor of something that would allow me to pick up multiple voices simultaneously. (I guess the Roger can do it, at 4-6 times the cost.)
Starngely, though I had high hopes for the M&RIE receivers, I find sound to be clearer and more natural with the normal receivers.
And the audi left for a better-paying job.
All in all, though, I like my Jabras because they do a much better job than any previous HA I’ve used. And liking the Jabras predisposes me to like ReSound. They’re good enough.
From my history as an audiophile, I know that short-term trials do not always predict long-term satisfaction. I also know that often it’s very difficultt o decide between 2 items, because they seem to be equally good but different. But even the ‘best’ is far from perfect. We have no way of avoiding compromises. We can only make a choice and hope we picked the better options.
It took me a long time to realize there was no ‘best’ hi-fi equipment. I took the suggestion of the guys at a local hi-fi shop to monitor my listening. Their reco was to answer this question: If I really listened to what I was hearing, did I want to listen more, or did I get nervous? I learned to buy what gave me sound at home that I liked. I still read the mags (Stereophile and the short-lived but great Listener, for example), but stopped worrying about what the reviewers said.
I’ve approached HAs the same same way. I buy HAs every 3 years because that’s my insurance coverage. I think the Jabras are a big enough improvement over my Philips 9010s for me to be satisfied for the 3 years. I don’t know what I’ll do in 3 years, but I’m confident that HAs will be better in 2026 than they are in 2023. OTOH, I would wager that there won’t be universal agreement in the industry about which HA is best.
I do hope the industry cuts out the marketing drivel and provides prospective buyer real info on their offerings.
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Sure, I will explain @Zebras. As @Volusiano rightly guessed I do not use the MyMusic, really never liked it. In that test I compared a music program I crafted, using DSL vs5.
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Is this for any age?
I’m friends with a set of identical twins, in their 30s. Both have same CI/HA and both have exactly same audiogram.
Altho both don’t benefit like some people with their CI, one of them picks up way more speech than the other one.
I’ve known then since I was 11 and it’s always been the case. The one who picks up more speech has much better speech (Altho still very poor) as I guess it’s because she can hear more.
They also go to mapping appointments together so bounce off each other.
Here is the kind of thing I was speaking of. I haven’t read this one through, but it is similar in the abstract to other results I’ve read in the way-back. It sucks to get old, but it beats the alternative.
Brain aging and speech perception: Effects of background noise and talker variability
WH
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Exactly! No hearing aid that I have tried filled all the wishes/hopes that I had when I arrived at the audiologists office. I do have a distinct set of priorities. I recently found that I can try other brands/models with the VA system, so I was prepared to be flexible. My number 1 requirement was clear speech. I got that in spades. My number 2 was streaming tv clearly. That did not happen, however; The hearing aid works so good for me, that I have almost no need to stream TV anymore (big bonus) Hands free phone - I have Android - Home run!
I took these aids and declined to try others because it is a giant step forward for me. Speech in noise…Failure of the most absolute sort. Roger was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. It may be…but not for me. I can’t seem to make it work for me the way others seem to be able to. Once again a tiny improvement in speech in noise provided by the hearing aid. So, I have the Roger collecting dust but don’t care at all. I have enough to work with. My life is improved. Hearing aids accepted…warts and all…
Dan