Resound Omnia vs Phonak Lumity

Hearing Aids
#529

Hi @SpudGunner

My understanding (someone please correct me if I mixed this up) is that the DSL v5.0 is sound level target that is used during the REM testing process. A series of speaking samples is played on a large speaker while small tubes are inserted in your ears near the eardrum with the hearing aids in use. The actual sound levels at the eardrum are then measured and captured on the computer screen and compared against the DSL v5.0 target. The audiologist then tweaks the sound levels across different frequency ranges to try and get the output of your hearing aids to match the target line on the graph. This is then repeated a bunch of times for soft, medium and loud volume levels.

As many have mentioned, there are a number of alternatives to DSL v5.0. I think DSL was developed in Canada and seems to be favoured by Canadian audiologists who were trained using DSL. My audiologist uses DSL (I live in Toronto) and he feels that he gets better results and higher client satisfaction with DSL v5.0 vs other targets. I’m not sure of the differences but then again, I’ve been going to the same audiologist for 22+ years so I am not sure if I have been fitted against anything else other than DSL. When I was fitted with Lumity, my audiologist did mention that he was quite surprised (and delighted) by how close the new Phonak initial fit ended up being to the targets he was aiming for via the REM test. He only had to tweak a bit to get a really close match and I’ve been incredibly happy with the results I am getting from Lumity.

Hope I got this correct. I’m just a long term user and not an audiologist.

Jordan

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#530

@JordanK : Jordan, thanks for the reply: for the record, my DSL was properly fitted using REM. My understanding was that DSL V.5 (adult) would provide more gain the higher the frequency. Its design rationale was to maximize audibility, and not comprehension. (… or something like that)

My question can be paraphrased like this - do you find DSL sharper-sounding than VAC+, or softer (more muted)?

#531

As long as their charge lasts the day. They have much shorter runtime than their competitors. I did not even consider them because of that.

#532

I don’t mean to restart another flame war regarding Phonak rechargeables, but it’s just not that big a deal for the majority of people (as evidenced by great Phonak sales numbers) If one’s hearing aids are “mission critical” and it’s too disruptive to one’s busy day to do a brief recharge, one really ought to consider having back up aids (disposable batteries) that one carries with one all the time. Phonak is not trying to please “everybody all the time,” they are trying to please “most of the people most of the time” and it seems like they’ve been pretty successful at it. This forum is not representative of the overall community of hearing aid users.

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#533

@SpudGunner: If I may offer my impression… VAC+ is Oticon proprietary fitting formula. I spent a couple of months comparing a VAC+ program to a DSL V.5. I had these two programs in my More 1 as P1 and P2, both with similar gain and the same “automatics” and “moresound intelligence” setup. VAC+ sounded smoother, perhaps. DSL sounded crisp, sharp, perhaps more true to the real input. But, as I mentioned, they had similar gain curves.In the end I was OK with both of them, couldn’t notice a significative edge of one over the other.

However, one thing worth metionting, at leat in my case (with my audiogram), is that their initial target differ considerably. For instance, in my left ear, VAC+ was around 10dB louder in average.

#534

Despite what this forum would lead people to believe, after REM this is common.

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#535

@e1405: Thanks for offering your opinion. Of course, it is welcome! The difference you have described marched my first encounter with DSL bs VAC+ to a tee. My second trial has produced results that are almost diametrically opposed to my first impressions. In other words, the DSL sounds much warmer and softer than the VAC+.

Smooth is a good word for VAC+ :that’s the impression that I first got when I was initially comparing it to DSL v.5. So … I’m wondering what has changed.

I’m due to have another hearing test in a few weeks. It will be interesting to see if anything has changed dramatically. Certainly my impressions of these two fitting rationales has changed dramatically, and I’d like to find out why.

But thanks for your answer. I appreciate the time you took to post it, and it is most helpful and welcome as I try to decipher this change.

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#536

Happened to me, too. One and done, except for some additional programs like acoustic phone and comfort in echo.

WH

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#537

My experience with REM was awful! I posted it on this forum… I am going to give it another try with a more competent professional. Not many good options in my area though…

#538

Hi… I’ve read your post about trying the Oticon More’s back in Aug/Sept of 2022. You coming from the Marvels’ but your HCP wanted you to try the Mores.

I searched around, was time consuming and couldn’t find any details if you actually trialed the Oticon More and your experience with them.
Can you elaborate? Would be most welcome. I’ve been using the Oticon OPN ric 105 db receivers for almost 6 years and am in the market for new aids. I have experienced StereoZoom in Phonak aids during a trial years ago and want to try the Lumity for better speech in noise understanding.

#539

Hello @mstrmac

I did try the Oticon More. I hated them. The sound was amplified, but unnatural and I couldn’t hear some of the everyday sounds that I normally hear. My husband, for example. I NEVER have trouble hearing him. He’s loud by most people’s standards. I couldn’t hear a word he was saying with the Oticons. I kept having to ask him to repeat almost everything he was saying. Very frustrating for both of us.

They also amplified sounds that I DON’T want to hear, like dishes clattering together. So annoying!

This wasn’t the first time I’ve trialed Oticons. I wore a test pair before I got my first pair of Phonaks (Marvels) 3 years ago. The Oticons were horrible. I thought that with the Oticon More they might have gotten better, but they didn’t, but I was willing to give them another chance. I’m sure it’s not the same for everyone, but Oticon just isn’t for me.

Like you, speech in noise understanding was my main goal in getting new hearing aids. The Lumity are outstanding; unlike anything I’ve ever experienced! I was in a noisy bar with my husband and could easily hear him. He, however, kept asking me to repeat myself. He was having trouble hearing what I was saying. I was surprised and had to ask him if it was noisy in the bar, because all I could hear was dull background noise!

I am extremely pleased with my Phonak Lumity. It’s hard to believe how much better they are than the Phonak Marvels they replaced, but they really are amazing!

My advice is to trial as many different aids as your audi will let you. That way you will know which one is best for you, and you can experience the difference between them for yourself. Let me know how it goes!

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#540

I love my Oticon More1 aids, but I realize and understand they aren’t for everyone. We are all individuals and have different opinions and hearing needs. My hearing loss is such and my trust in my VA Audiologist is such I would accept what he believes is best for my needs. While I have worn Oticon aids for 13+ years and love the open sound concept, if he said that a different brand of hearing aids would help me understand speech better I would willingly accept that and work to adapt to the aids. If my life has taught me anything it is that I can adapt to what this life throws at me.

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#541

@mstrmac I found an email in my inbox right after I sent my last reply. The new Oticon Real might be something to check out. Sounds like it’s Oticon’s new model in response to Phonak Lumity.

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#542

I am hoping to get a chance to try them this year, the VA will have them later this spring after the new contracts are signed the first of May.

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#543

@cvkemp: I am also a genuine Oticon brand More1 HA wearer, and - like you - a very satisfied one. I’m sure there are some hearing losses for which these devices are not suitable. I would not, however, make a blanket statement trashing any maker: be it Phonak, Starkey, Oticon, or whomever. The unsuitability has probably just as much to do with the user as with the maker, IMO.

#544

Not making any blanket statement except that I trust my audiologist to make the right decision for my hearing loss and needs. He has proven to me that he has the knowledge of both the hearing aids and my hearing loss as well as the willingness to listen, ask questions and research. While I am not going to resort to making my own adjustments, my audiologist allows me to set in front of his computer and see all of the details and adjustments available for my aids, to ask questions about them and even ask to try them. He isn’t a control freak like some on here talk about, and I know myself well enough to know I could very well screw my aids over if I attempted to do it by myself.

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#545

While I don’t know about the VAC formula, I have been playing with different formulae on the Resound and I will include three charts for each of the NAL-NL2, Resound’s own Audiogram+ and DSLv5-Adult

image
NAL-NL2 appears to be super bright, very high High Frequency (HF) content that will be very uncomfortable, about 30dB higher at HF.
image
Audiogram+ is pretty flat upto 1KHz and than has a gradual increase in high frequencies, about 15dB increase at HF. This will be warmer sounding than the NL2
image
The DSLv5 is pretty flat with a small dip at the middle. This will probably give you the, warmest sound.

I am not 100% sure but I think the DSLv5 is one of the formulae used as a starting point to fitting. I am not sure if there is a criteria based on ones hearing loss that the audi chooses for each individual. I am unsure about it being only for REM. The dotted lines in the graphs I sent are the target lines for the formula and I think you measure the actual value and if there is a deviation from the target (for the formula used), than you play with the gain to bring the curve on top of the target line.
For instance, in the example below, assume the red line is the REM test result. It is several dB lower at the low frequency end. Than you boost the signal until the REM overlaps the dotted line, I think.
image

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#546

@cvkemp: My post was not responding to you, at all, Chuck. It was supposed to respond to @jonifoz . Sorry for the confusion.

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#547

@Levo: Thanks very much for going to the trouble to post your detailed explanation. It certainly does explain why I’m hearing what I’m hearing … thanks for that!

#548

I see further down in the comments that you had intended this post for me, despite the tag.

I was in no way trashing one brand over another. I was asked to describe my own experience, which I did. I also quantified my experience with “I’m sure it’s not the same for everyone, but Oticon just isn’t for me.”

I also advised “to trial as many different aids as your audi will let you. That way you will know which one is best for you, and you can experience the difference between them for yourself.”

Perhaps you missed these statements.

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