Hi @Sequoia_Woman… Just thinking out loud, if your P90’s are working fairly good, and in the absence of your old A.uD’s, why don’t you ask your new A.uD to export all the settings from P90’s, and import them into your L90’s, this is a fairly simple process in the Target software, it worked I believe, when I suggested this to @bluejay, it worked for me, as a DIY’er when I tried it for the first time, exported all the settings on my Naida M70 SP’s including REM, and imported these settings into my Naida P90 Up’s, and bingo, it worked perfect… @Neville stated, occasionally REM doesn’t transfer, but sometimes it works just fine, tis worth a try, you could ask your A.uD ? Good Luck, cheers Kev 
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I am trialing the Lumitys and find the Phonak Speech Enhancer really great. In quiet “COMFORT” situations (30 to 50 dB background noise), it selectively amplifies soft speech by up to 10 dB. My wife comes through loud and clear. But according to the Target software guide, Speech Enhancer is only turned on if your fitting settings are set at EXPERIENCED or LONG-TIME user. The feature is only available, IIRC, with the Phonak Paradises or Lumitys. But IMHO, every Phonak user of those HA’s would want the feature turned on. It’s GREAT! So, I’d check with your current audi (or your next one!) what your user experience setting is and how much the Speech Enhancer volume enhancement is set at (mine’s only at MODERATE so I’m probably not getting the full 10 dB enhancement).
This is more of a general inquiry to any providers or DIY’ers reading the current discussion about what to do about REM if one’s HCP doesn’t come across. Wouldn’t in situ audiometry be a “poor person’s substitute” for that? That would be for a DIY’er through Target software playing audiometry tones at different frequencies into one’s ears and just like in a regular audiogram, you tell Target the least volume of a tone you can barely hear. You can also do an upper tolerable loudness test across frequencies, too. I would think the combination of the two tests would set the upper and lower limits of sound volume within which your chosen compression schemes has to deliver soft, moderate, and loud tones. And the in-situ audiogram implicitly takes into account the acoustics of each ear canal. Perhaps that’s not as good as doing REM at a moderate sound volume (the volume you’ll be operating at most of the time for speech understanding) but it ought to pretty well put you in the ballpark.
I’m also assuming that brand-new hearing aids ought to be pretty well in calibration and that the in situ test, by benchmarking what you can hear and using that sound volume level as your minimum audibility level at any frequency implicitly therefore corrects for any errors in precise sound reproduction by your HA’s as well as implicityly taking into account the acoustics of your ear canals, i.e., if you should be able to hear a frequency at 50 dB output but the HA is weak or your ear canals have bad acoustics and you can only hear the sound when your HA is really cranking out 60 dB, the software should reset your minimum required output at a particular frequency to whatever volume a given HA actually puts out in your unique ear canal rather than the theoretical volume that’s supposed to work for you given past audiograms and previous HA fittings with earlier model HA’s, etc.
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Maybe it is your hearing loss, from the wording you used, you lost hearing in your ear… maybe consider getting yourself a CI evaluation…
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So disappointing to see what happens when you take leading edge hearing aids like Lumity and place then into the hands of a sloppy audiologist who either doesn’t know what they are doing or who is just lazy and doesn’t want to fit them properly. Without a REM test and adjustment, you are just listening via first fit settings and we all know first fit is never ideal. My audiologist spent half of my first fitting session just doing the REM and then adjusting the hearing aids to match the target DSL2 profile. This then got repeated a few times for the different sound levels. He also confirmed the changes were significant. I’d be tempted to either contact Phonak to ask for their recommendation for a better audiologist or be prepared to drive to a larger city to find a better clinic.
You really have to wonder how many people are robbed of better hearing by a poor fitting process.
Jordan
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I updated from the Phonak Marvel M-90. I was very pleased with them, and my Lumity are a huge improvement on the Marvels which were cutting edge when they came out. I didn’t have REM. I’m in the same boat as you are as far as audiologist availability is concerned. I live in a small town in Montana. My choice of audiologists is very limited, and none of them do REM. My audiologist is a little old guy who has been doing this for 30 years, so he has a lot of experience. Although he doesn’t do REM, he’s very good.
I think I was pretty lucky that the initial programming went well. However, I know that if I were to get REM there would probably be a big improvement.
I had a similar experience to the one you had in the cafe. I went to a quiet bar with a friend. There was music quietly playing overhead, but I struggled to hear both my friend and the waitress. I also went to a grocery store where there was music playing in the background. One of my neighbors came over to talk to me and I struggled to hear them.
I went to a department store and had to ask a question. The woman was wearing a face mask. To my pleasant surprise, I could hear and understand every word she said in spite of the face mask, which is something I cannot usually do.
At Christmas dinner I had difficulty hearing in a quiet situation (again with music playing in the background) so I bumped up the sound manually one notch and it was fine. After everyone arrived and things got noisy I was able to hear remarkably well.
I don’t know if my difficulties have something to do with music playing in the background, but it seems to be a common denominator in the situations where I’ve had trouble hearing speech in quieter situations.
I’m going to make notes and make an appointment with my audi to see what he can do. If I still have trouble I will research going to an audi who does REM. I researched it once before, and vaguely remember that the closest REM audi is hundreds of miles away. I’ll have to wait for spring to travel if I end up doing that.
I’m so sorry that you are having these difficulties. It’s so frustrating! Your audi sounds incompetent, and I’m sure it’s just a matter of having the aids adjusted. If at all possible I would go to an audi who performs REM, and until then maybe try adjusting them yourself. It’s worth playing around with them a bit if you can’t hear well now.
Please keep me updated, and I’ll do the same if I find out anything that may be helpful.
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I have just read your post with some interest. I am a long time wearer of Phonak aids in the UK. I also receive, fortunately enough, Oticon aids from my local hospital (NHS).
With respect to the Phonak aids you said something that really resonated with me, which was that you were struggling in quiet situations. This is counter-intuitive as one would assume noisy situations would pose the greatest difficulties.
In my mind, based on my experience with Phonak, there could be a few reasons for this:
I) The amplification is too low overall. In quiet situations I have found that the device can go into the ‘comfort in noise’ setting - I know this because I used to see that this program was what it was set to in the app. Whenever this happened everything went quiet. The problem wasn’t the comfort in noise setting per se - it was because the aids were not providing enough gain to start with - further exacerbated by the comfort in noise program reducing the gain even further. This problem was solved by increasing the gain by 10db. This was in the days before REM.
ii) One perhaps might underestimate the volume required even in quiet situations. The tendency is to put the volume one or two notches above the default. But in fact three or four are needed.
iii) The absence of REM. I have found personally that REM provides a clarity that I just don’t get when compared to just matching the audiogram. I am not saying an audiologist cannot achieve that clarity without REM but it might make a difference in your case.
Good luck.
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Your inputs were very timely for me. Had my first fitting session online with new L90s this morning about 2 hrs after reading your posting. The person set the HAs to Experienced and the speech enhancer to to the max 10db as you suggested. The in-situ audiomitry was very good in making adjustments to my 3 month old audiogram from an ENT Dr.
Many thanks for the help you provided!!
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In my Lumity’s, R is always the master, and in fact, drains significantly faster than the L.
Today I got to start trialing the ReSound Omnias and I got to keep the Lumitys for comparison during the Omnia trial.
My comparison is going to be an apples-to-oranges comparison as for the Omnias I had custom molds made for $200 and am fitted with the M&RIE receivers. I think any impressions I have will be a YMMV sort of opinion. I’ve only been wearing them a few hours, but my experience is quite a bit different than Jordan’s.
Besides the M&RIE receivers and the molds, I’m fitted with the NAL-NL2 algorithm, and my user experience is set at “Experienced Non-Linear.” I trust that I am set in 360 deg All-Around mode where the narrow beam forming of “Front Focus” will automatically come into play if someone is speaking in front of me and there is loud noise around or behind me. I can also enter that mode immediately by choosing the Front Focus program in the Smart 3D program on my iPhone or Apple Watch.
With the Lumitys, I’m just wearing a small slim minimally vented dome. So, there is the opportunity for a lot of noise to go directly to my eardrums bypassing HA processing. My Lumity highfrequencies can’t be amplified as much as with the Omnias in order to avoid feedback issues with my more open Lumity fit. With the custom silicone molds for the Omnias, I chose Select-A-Vent and I have inserted vent plugs giving me about 1 mm diameter vent hole. That gives me great noise control.
I agree with Jordan that the Lumity bass is a lot deeper and richer than the Omnia bass even with adjustments (turning the bass to +6 in the Smart 3D app, midtones and treble to -2 and increasing the overall volume). But the flip side, because I have tight fitting molds and am running with NAL-NL2, the midtones and treble are amplified more for the Omnia. Speech is crisp and clarion-clear and in music, high notes of high-pitched instruments stand out wonderfully as do singing voices whereas the rich bass of the Lumitys is more like Beats audio. The closest comparison between the two HA’s is probably in listening to the same podcast broadcast into my ears with the external mics shut off. The Lumitys again have a deeper richer bass (and the bass probably would be even deeper if I had occlusive molds as I do for the Omnias). The Omnias have decent bass, but I have no idea, if I had normal hearing, what the true sound of the voices would sound like, unprocessed through HA’s.
The main difference so far that I appreciate is any use of the ReSound Smart 3D program is lightning fast compared to the myPhonak app, which is a dog. Also, I can use the 3D app on my Apple Watch and that’s extremely responsive, too. In the Smart 3D app when I stream, I can adjust bass, midtones, and treble as I wish, also wind and noise suppression. AFAIK, the only thing that I can adjust while streaming with the Lumitys is the balance between streaming and my external mics.
I do like the positioning of the external mics on the HA body on the Lumity a lot more than on the Omnia. I am a psoriatic and even with showering and medicated shampoos, I had a tough time preventing a rain of dandruff getting into the mic openings on the ReSound Quattros. The rearward mic on the Omnia HA body is more vertical and better positioned and the M&RIE mic in each ear is shielded within the mold opening for inserting the receiver. Since something like 12/13 of my daily listening is in a quiet environment, most of my listening should be through the M&RIE mics (they mainly only work in quiet environments) so most of the time I shouldn’t have to worry about how clean my external mics are.
The Omnias do seem to change program settings faster than the Quattros, which could be ponderous at times. They seem to be less aggressive than Autosense 5.0 for the Lumitys. I previously mentioned that if I turn on vigorously aerated tap water running right in front of me, the Lumitys immediately dial up strong noise suppression. There is a perceptible decrease in volume and if my wife is speaking to the side, her voice immediately decreases in volume and intelligibility as do any other nearby sounds in the environment. Haven’t included the wife in an Omnia water test yet, but if I turn on tap water, there is no aggressive application of noise suppression or overall volume reduction that I’m aware of. In spite of the aggressive high-frequency amplification of my NAL-NL2 fit, it all sounds like very natural running water right in front of me. So, where I’d differ from Jordan, is the world sounds more natural to me, more 360 degrees, with the Omnias than the Lumitys, but less rich in bass, a bit higher-pitched on average (but then I don’t have NAL-NL2 running for the Lumitys and probably couldn’t because of my open fit).
I really like the Lumitys alot. They are much better than my Quattros (but so are the Omnias). When I’d take them out, I felt really deaf by comparison with no HA’s in my ears. Perhaps the Omnias are good but not quite the elite sound of the Lumitys but I like MFi HA’s, the responsiveness and control of the 3D app vs. the myPhonak app, especially the ability to use it on my Apple Watch, and to not worry about summer heat in Texas or the rechargeable batteries fading away after the warranty period expires, if I go with the Omnias, I’d spring for a disposable battery version taking the largest disposable battery size possible.
According to ReSound’s original literature, I’m not a candidate to wear M&RIE receivers because my low-frequency hearing is too good relative to my moderately severe high-frequency loss and the ski slope drop in my audiogram is supposedly too steep. But just as a simulated analysis with Smart Fit predicted, in actuality, with close-fitting molds, I have NO feedback issues and even with an NAL-NL2 fit, the high frequencies are well below the amplification levels that might cause feedback based on the DFSIII feedback test. As soon as I pull the aids out, though, they really start to howl compared to the Lumitys, which can’t enjoy the same degree of high-frequency amplification due to my more open Lumity fit.
On the pinna effect, it could be a placebo effect (the power of suggestion) but I’d say it’s definitely noticeable with the M&RIE receivers. Sounds seem more localized than with the Quattros or the Lumitys. When I look while making a sound, my brain tells me (maybe just placebo effect?) that, YES, the sound is coming from that location. If not looking, seems easier to place left vs. right, etc.
I don’t know that I’ve given the Lumitys a fair test of beam forming. If I switch the Omnias to front focus, I definitely have a sensation of aimed hearing that comes and goes as I move my head relative to the source of the sound.
As far as streaming from any BT device, I have over-the-ear wireless BT headphones that can pound bass into my head even wearing occlusive molds so while direct streaming with the Lumitys is great, for the small amount of time I stream from any source other than my smartphone, I think the headphones will work just fine over the Omnias, if I go with them.
So, I guess the bottom line so far is that I find the Omnias quite good with M&RIE receivers, close-fitting molds, and an NAL-NL2 fit for an experienced non-linear user, much better than I expected from comments made by other folks that have compared them. The Lumitys are certainly excellent, but they come at the price of the battery runtime ball-and-chain (1Blujay bought two sets to overcome that) and a klutzy smartphone app by comparison with no Apple Watch version (and no Android watch version?).
My biggest potential negative with the Omnias is that I didn’t find the Quattros that reliable over the four years I’ve owned them. Most people seem to find Phonak VERY reliable. So that’s another intangible to weigh before spending a lot of cash. ReSound was great about warranty replacements but I’d like to avoid a repeat experience…
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Interesting information. Keep posting comments. My only comment is that you are not comparing apples to apples as the two hearing aids are not using the same setup inside your ears. One was an open fit and the other not. You should try and compare them with the same closed fitting setup and then compare. What I found is that during the REM test, my audiologist managed to get better performance by going with heavier double domes. It seemed to prevent sound leakage/feedback and allowed higher amplification. The results for me was a much richer listening experience. I didn’t get that with Omnia.
Just my initial thoughts.
Jordan
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I’ve had my new omnia’s now for a couple weeks and am very happy with them … as I have posted in the past I’m retired and spend many hours outdoors in Florida playing sports and travel primarily by golf cart… I have found that the omnias have a better wind suppression than the lumitys I trialed which is a huge benefit to my life style… the omnias also are a little better at noise suppression than the lumitys on my golf cart or when near lawn mowers or leaf blowers … my understanding conversations in crowds is also good, the lumitys might have been a little better at that but not much… in restaurant conditions they both worked well after finding the settings that I prefered … the next couple of items the lumitys dont even come close in comparison to the omnias … the Omnia battery life is MUCH more superior… I hated that when I came home early afternoon that the 1st thing I had to do was make sure I stuck the lumitys in the charger so they wouldn’t die out late evening… also the Resound app is FAR superior to Phonaks… I like the fact that I can just remove the HA’s from charger put them in my ears and never actually touch the app… they automatically change to “MY PROGRAMED” “Indoor Settings” at my set location on the app of my home address and when I leave and travel about 2 blocks from my home the app automatically changes the HA’s to my Outdoor Program … and 1 last difference again to my lifestyle is TV streaming I hated the Lumitys that when streaming I’d recieve a phone call or text and it would interupt the stream and I’d have to open the app and hook up again with my Omnias they automatically revert back to the TV stream also when I traveled to the next room from the TV the stream would stop … I think as far as being able to hear the enviromental sounds around me and having conversations they both do a great job but based on all the little extras I chose the Omnia’s …
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How much streaming were you doing a day with the Lumitys?
I find this surprising as I usually stream for several hours using the KS10s with the Phonak TV Connector and never have a problem. I think it’s Bluetooth on the phone that’s the killer.
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I stream anywhere from 5 on week days and up to 9 hrs on weekends watching sports
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5 hours of Bluetooth streaming a day on your phone.
That must be the killer.
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glucas… I never posted streaming on phone… I said TV streaming using a phonak tv streamer… and now using the Resound TV streamer
Ah… OK.
That’s very strange.
I get better performance than that with KS10s.
Yes, I have found that to be the case. I am still trying to get my Lumity HAs to work in noise. Oddly, enough I am finding that reducing the Noise reduction settings is improving the voice perception. I thinking of having my Audiologist reduce the Noise reduction somewhat as it seems too much of this actually cancels out some of my voice perception. Do you find this to be true?
@david.hendon : My experience mirrors that of Member _lewis.
I’ve been trialling the Lumity’s after 6 years with Signia Pure. I’ve had the Lumity’s for just over 3 weeks now, including 1 visit back to the audi for tweaking, and I must say, I’m very disappointed.
I was expecting great things after reading so much high praise in this thread. However, my experience has not been so positive. My comprehension in either one-on-one conversations or in groups has not improved at all compared with my old Signia’s. I still have to ask every clerk or receptionist to repeat themselves. I can’t make out the person speaking in front of me if there are two other people speaking on my side. I can’t hear the passenger beside me in the car while it’s moving and there’s road noise.
The app is too slow at connecting to be useful as a remote to tweak focus or balance in these situations.
When streaming from my phone or computer, I must say that if it’s ,for example a documentary podcast, voices are very clear. However, when streaming music, I get this odd knocking sound (no, it’s not the drums), that might be the mics clipping. It’s even worse if there’s speech over music - for example while streaming exercise videos; the only way to get rid of the knocking is to lower the volume to such an extent that I can no longer reliably make out the words.
Finally, there’s the issue of battery time. These are brand new, and on a heavier streaming day (say 3 hours), I can be down to 4% by bedtime after 17 hours of wear. I worry about what it would be 2 or 3 years from now.
On the positive side, I love, love, love the ability to do true handsfree with my phone (I never even thought I wanted that, but now I’d find it really sad to have to give it up). The other positive is that I can stream directly from my computer - I understand the other brands I’d have to use a TV streamer to do that.
The plan is to trial the Signia Pure Charge & Go AX next. I’m wondering whether to continue trying to tweak these Lumity’s. I should mention that the audi was never able to get the aids to match what REM suggested. My audi called in her boss to try as well, but whenever they boosted the aids that high, I got terrible artefactual sounds, like old fashioned speakers when you turned the sound too high. Actually, this has always been an issue for me, including with my old aids and my last 2 audis.
Any thoughts?
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@jonifoz Hi well I wore the Lumity 90s during the holidays and restaurants. I was not hearing things well at all. Standing at the cashiers to pay, during a not too busy time - I didn’t hear everything, my brain was having to put word & sentences together to follow the conversations. I was terribly frustrated. Beside HURTING my ears something terrible. (I know, new hearing aids take time to break our ears in ) Anyway, I went back to my 2 year old paradise hearing aids. Just like putting on old slippers. I can hear fine with these, the only reason I wanted to get Lumity was for the speech clarity that they, Phonak, boasted about. My audiologist is not a good one. He did not even know there was a “Life” model. I mentioned about Speech Enhancer and asked what mine was set to , he said that is is turned on by the manufacturer and the computer sets it based on my audiogram. He could not tell me what that setting was. I told him that the music streaming was good and that I could hear the TV pretty good without the TV connector. The phone calls were ok without BT. Those are nice to haves, but I was looking for a bump up in my hearing out in the real world. I returned them. I feel good about the return, because until I get an Audiologist that knows how to adjust hearing aids and will work with me, I’m not going to settle. If I buy them from him. I will have to pay $350+ to have another audiologist take care of me, if I bought from him and then changed, so I’ll wait and find an audiologist. Thank you all @jim_lewis @JordanK @jonifoz and all other posts.
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