Question relating to upgrading to Oticon Intents from Oticon Reals

Question. We know the Intents use new self adjusting receivers. What does that actually mean.?

I would think REM would not be needed if the receivers could monitor output and feedback from the contours of your canals.

Oticon calls them “self-calibrating” speakers. I would also be interested in knowing what that means. I’m guessing that there’s some kind of sensor at the speaker so that the output at the speaker can be calibrated.

…world’s first self-calibrating speaker to make speaker inaccuracy a thing of the past. The new miniFit Detect delivers gain accuracy within 1dB, providing up to 57% more precise gain compared to previous speaker units

–hearinghealthmatters.org/hearing-technologies/2024/oticon-intent-hearing-aids/

As to REM, I think the speaker would be too far from the eardrum to reflect ear canal effects as REM does. The end of the probe tube used for REM is supposed to be within 2-5 mm from the eardrum.

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Since the new Oticon self calibrating receiver can now communicate with the Intent hearing aid at the connection port (no longer just a passively wired connection point like before), the Intent no longer just has to only blindly send preset amplified analog signal out to the receiver without knowing the actual health of the receiver, which can deteriorate over time as a wear and tear item due to continued sustained vibrations.

So I’m guessing that there’s probably a chip of some sort built into the receiver that does self scanning upon receiving a start up signal from the Intent. I’d guess that the receiver goes through some kind of self calibration cycle to electrically measure and collect information about its physical performance characteristics and send it back to the Intent. Based on this information, if these characteristics from the receiver happen to change or “drift” in values over time, the Intent can adjust its amplification output to compensate for this “drift” such that the output of the receiver can be maintained at the optimum performance specs. At least until the wear and tear can no longer be compensated by the Intent to keep the receiver within specs, then I assume that the receiver would need to be replaced at this point.

Also, with a passive receiver like before, if/when it gets worn out to the point that it may only work OK within some frequency ranges but not others, or within certain volume levels but might “screech” when it reaches a saturation point for amplification, the user might not detect it early enough to replace it in time well ahead of its point of failure. But with a self-calibrating receiver, it now can self monitor itself and send earlier warning signals to the aid to raise the alarm to the user that a replacement may be needed much sooner rather than later, well before when the user can detect an actual failure.

As for self calibrating receivers being smart enough to remove the need for REM, I really doubt it. REM relies on a measuring device (an internal mic placed inside the ear canal at the proper place) to capture and verify the performance of the whole system (the ear canal also being part of this system). I don’t really think that a self calibrating receiver uses any built-in mic of its own (cannot be placed in the right location inside the canal anyway) to measure the actual sound output from the actual receiver. I think the self calibration is most likely to be measuring the electrical characteristics of the receiver, rather than the actual sound output performance of the receiver.

Of course all of the above is just an educated guess from an engineer like myself. I’m no authority on how self calibrating receiver works. I would love to hear from somebody else who knows more about this. But as long as a bunch of us here are musing on how it works and what it can do, I’m just joining the conversation here with my own musing.

The drawback to this, is another recurring cost to the consumer (especially if Oticon’s receivers play the HP printer game), and this will eliminate any competition in that segment (compatible receiver) (if there was any competition to begin with).
Basically, locking consumer into Oticon’s ecosystem.

I think these receivers should be standardized across all hearing aids manufacturer, just like batteries (312, 13, 675), and this should apply to charging stations too and accessories.

If one has to switch from Oticon to Signia, then he has to get all peripheral and consumable that works with Signia HA…

Thanks for pointing this out. I also had the same thought as well but forgot to mention it. On top of that, there’s also something to be said about areceiver design that is simpler and therefore cheaper to maintain. I remember last time I had to buy Oticon receiver replacement on eBay, I was able to find 2 of them for $16 total. They may not be sophisticated like the Intent type, but at $8 a pop, I can afford to change out to new receivers even twice a year easily and not blink an eye.

I don’t really know how much the new Intent self-calibrating receivers will cost out of warranty, but for some reason I can see them costing $100 a pop quite easily. And while they’re designed to always perform well until they have to be replaced, I would think that the actual receiver part wouldn’t be any more reliable than the current simpler receivers. If anything, all that self calibration circuitry might cause the receiver to become less reliable, albeit performing better while still functional.

And you’re right that the standardization and compatibility for the receivers across the HA brands can only help make them much more readily available, and that can also drive their prices down more because they’re now kind of a commodity level product rather than a specialized non-standard proprietary product.

But somehow I’m getting the feeling that the HA industry is heading in that direction, what with Phonak having their own Active Vent type receiver, and now Oticon with their own self-calibrating receivers.

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I don’t want to burst your bubble, but typically, neither the audi nor the maker would give you any price break on an “upgrade”. To them, once the trial is over, you’ve made your purchase decision. If a new model comes out even a week after your trial is over you’d be out of luck.

That said, I had a longtime audi for 15 years, and he gave me a price break when I turned in a pair of 9-mo old Oticon OPN aids and bought Phonak Audeo B-Direct. I was DESPERATE for a TV streamer, and Oticon hyped it for over a year without delivering one. So my audi felt like I’d been misled. But that is the exception to the rule.

I totally agree with and can relate to everything you’ve said. REM is just a “cover the a$$” step before the REAL work begins: complete re-working of the settings to deliver the kind of world I want to hear. It’s a very individual thing.

When I got my Phonak Lumity Life aids (replacing the Marvels) I ended up copy/replacing the entire settings from the Marvel into the Lumity Life and THEN making some fine adjustments to the sound quality till they were perfect.

That’s what makes me hesitate as I consider trialing the Oticon Intent. How can I make those sound as rich and full as my Phonaks BUT get the directional boost when I turn my head to the person talking to me. :thinking:

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your audiogram is similar of my. at momment use receiver 100.
receiver 105 is great?

you use remote micro? which? and how your use for example, in restaurant? put in center a table?

The Remote Lapel Mic as pictured here. In a noisy restaurant I can sit it near the person across the table or have her wear it and turn the surroundings tab a -4 or - 3.

Good. And your receivers. I Can view?

I have the 105 db receivers!

Any new information here? I’m planning to buy S24, but maybe I should wait for S25(?) Do you know if the handsfree function will be offered through a s24 software update?

@Member293 This article is worth a read:

And this from the Android Developers (click Switch to English):

  • BLE Reliability:

    • Addressed a critical Bluetooth connection issue affecting dual-mode devices with LE random address.
  • LE Audio Enhancements:

    • Significant improvements have been made to LE Audio, addressing clock synchronization problems, pairing and bonding experiences, and packet drops for a smoother, higher-quality audio and hearing aid experience.

I understand that Android 15 Beta 2 has been released with these in them for testing.

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Thanks for sharing, I think everyone will be interested in the

BLE Reliability.

LE Audio Enhancements.

Taken far to long tho, they should have done it with previous versions, right time for a new phone!

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