@menglxs Is there anything else on the Target software that I can do if I find the compression is getting in the way?
Some of my experience:
You can adjust 4 different music types of gain under Fine tuning- Music program- Audibility fine tuning-Sound category-Sound type, this is easier to understand than directly adjusting the gain under Fine tuning-Music program-Gain&MPO.
If you using a compilot to streaming the music, you can changing the fine turing data of Bluetooth audio+mic program from Music.
When the compilot and PC are connected via the AUX cable, the sounds quality is better than connected by BT.
I found that the sounds quality of DSL v5a adult fitting formula was good, but changing fitting formulas would affect all programs.
If I changing the compression type under Global tuning to semi linear or linear, sound quality will improves, but changes can affect all programs.
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Thanks for all the information.
I already use DSL fitting formula as I find it a lot better.
This Phonak target programming course has some suggestion for the music programs.
Phonak target programming
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Hi menglxs, Zebras has directed here from another post - that’s why I didn’t post earlier.
You are right, changes in basic adjustments CAN affect all programs. But it needs not to do so. You can change basic settings but don’t let “Target” to recalculate the fitting parameters. Then you have the old properties for all present programs.
If you add a new program or instruct a specific program within “finetuning” to recalculate, then that program/s will receive the new properties from the basic tunings.
Btw: I have an S-slope hearing loss. Linear amplification is a bad idea.
Linear amplification may be worth to try if one has almost the same loss on all frequencies.
Thank you for the link.
Fun-fact from the pdf (page 4): Patient reports: “I can hear people far away better than I can hear people close to me.” Solution: reduce soft-sounds.
The result is: You no longer can hear people far away as good as you did before, it is worse. 
Yes, I find that I can easier to understand speech by adding Gain 20dB(very soft-sounds, in some Target versions, the name is Gain 35dB).
It does effect ALL programs. I’ve just tried it. I really thought we had found a way to change just the music program to linear.
I am sorry, you are right 
I haven’t tried “linear compression” ever before. In the past I always made just minor changes to the basic adjustments and always accepted Target’s ask for recalculation of my finetuning. Why the hel. am I asked if Target changes the adjustments anyway 
Or is this a change from Target 5.2 to 5.3?
For linear compression only in the music program you “just” have to manually set the same values for G50,G65 and G80 at a specific frequency. But that is what you already know.
@menglxs
I don’t change anything on the tab “TK/Gain for 35dB” - each frequency is already set at the maximum value and that is what I want to have, because I want to hear as much as possible: leafs in the tree in the wind, birds chirping, folding the newspaper etc… In my last post I was just smiling because of a specific cusomer’s question asked in the PDF. The recommendation was to reduce gain for very silent input. The effect is that you no longer understand people who are far away.
Well I have managed to get the CR to 1.0, just on my music program. It’s taken me about 2 hours to adjust each G number and channel.
I’ve also turned off WhistleBlock and everything else.
Music is sounding good now.
EDIT - I couldn’t adjust each channel independently with my old Phonaks. When I tried it on my old Phonaks, I would highlight a channel / G number and it would also adjust the channel either side to it.
Do you believe it’s because of your new aids or because of the new version of Target? My last post was with Target 5.3, meenwhile it is at least at 6.x
Oh maybe?. I didn’t think about whether the latest Target could be a contribution.
With my Bolero B90’s and Target 6.x there is still a dependence on the neighboring channels. Luckily, you can switch the graph to Compression Ratio and you get better at it in time. Although I find CR 1 quite challenging, I get it at 1.2 quite fast, (<2min). The recommendation is at/below 1.3. Why do you go all the way to 1.0m @Zebras?
I don’t know if it makes a difference but my friend who is profoundly deaf and also a self programmer. She said her music program is at CR 1.0 and she finds it a lot better. Her job is a professional musician.
CR 1.0 gets too loud with the piano for me. But I find loud sound quickly painful (>90dB) , so that could be just me and the piano.
How about amplification per channel? Chasin says most musicians prefer a one channel setup: Basically all the frequencies with nearly the same amplification. With my cookie bite profile, that was impossible. However, since my profile is starting to level out in the last few years, this starts to be an option. Do you or your friend have experience with that?
My friend has a flat loss so her amplification is basically the same across her 16 channels that she has on her HAs.
My left ear is a cookie bite but I don’t find CR 1.0 to be too loud.
I’m not sure how having the same amplification across the board would benefit people with certain Audiograms.
As far as I remember you still have a conductive loss in your left ear (and you had in your right). With conductive loss (only) there is no problem using a CR of 1.0 in contrast to sensorineural loss (this is the normal case for most people): the higher the loss the higher the CR.
For most people a high sensorineural loss means that one can hear a sound only at a certain amplification but then it is almost immediatelly very loud. Uncomfortable level (UCL or MCL) is nearly the same or even worse than for normal hearings. UCL and MCL for conductive loss can be much higher.
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Yes my loss is conductive.
I never knew that about difference in hearing loss and difference in compression.
I have tried UCL on my left ear and I don’t find the loudest setting painful at all. It’s different for my right ear tho.
EDIT - I also have my Roger 18 receiver EasyGain set at max for my left ear and I don’t find it too loud. My Roger 18 for my right ear always feels too loud even with the EasyGain set to minimum.
@Dani I’ve actually just upgraded my Target to the latest 6.4 or whatever the number was.
As I’m self programming some ‘locked’ hearing aids, you can’t seem to update the software.
I had to uninstall the software, add the normal installation code, then download the software, then when the latest version of the software is installing, I added the unlock installation code.
Now I’ve got the latest version and I can still program my NHS hearing aids.
I was only on Target 5.4
@Zebras
That sounds great that you managed to upgrade Target to the latest version. I didn’t know that you were stuck on 5.4.
In my case I believe I found the best settings for my left ear. I don’t need to upgrade Target because I wear a Naida B. My right has an implant in my cochlear since February. I don’t have any residual hearing there any more.
Hi Dani
do you know of a HA store around Munich, edit: not DIY
that really understands Phonak Target and would run it with me ?
My use case is 95 % speech in quiet surroundings,
relatively mild hearing loss (roughly flat to 2 kHz, dropping about 30 dB to 4 kHz).
My curent HA store with a trial P30-R uses Audicon software with ISTS input and percentile plots;
@menglxs plots above from Target (in 2018) look far more informative.
Thanks,
cheers