I think you’re saying that Phonak makes it hard for independents to sell accessories at any profit because they give better deals to their own selllers?
Yes, they own the Whole supply chain in Boots Hearing Care in the U.K. , so which point they take the ‘profit’ is a tax/accountancy exercise.
We used to sell a lot of Unitron on the promise that they wouldn’t undercut the independent suppliers, until a customer came in and told me he could get exactly the same product from the local Boots Hearing more cheaply than my wholesale price.
I made the decision to drop Sonova then on. Fortunately that’s also meant we haven’t had to educate our clients on the Cerusheild palaver.
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Thanks. Revised version of Cerushield isn’t bad although I still prefer my wax filters on sticks. 
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Ok, isn’t that like forbidden? Dumping prices or whatever it is called?
Can you share if your wholesale prices are in the ballpark of those german ones or higer/lower?
1700-1900 eur without a discount on m90/p90 (I think around 1300-1400 with), 650 for select are rough german ones.
I saw some uk hearing aid providers selling new m90 for like 1300 eur or something. And I doubt they don’t have a profit out of it. So maybe they’re from that sonova supply chain?
The practice is masked by offering wholesale list prices which without discount are almost what the consumer pays. If you bulk buy there are discounts available to approximately 65%.
The split of where they take the profit depends on where they want to pay the tax.
On the high street they won’t normally be knocking out pairs of M90 under £2495, but there were a few offers running at this level before the lockdown started.
All the prices have changed now, and the model will also likely change as people work out that it’s better to go to quieter single attendance premises than rubbing shoulders with many people in large optical/chemists premises.
I have the DAI shoes and RogerX receivers to use with the Select. I use them with Resound Quattros.
I got the Roger X receivers …type 02… off eBay…$150each
The Select is the best mic I have ever seen for meetings
Can you share which model exactly? Ric or not? Battery size?
Thanks 
Better than table mic 2?
They both use beam forming, and table mic 2 can work in network of them, plus can change if they need to catch closer or further away. But only for quiet afaik.
I’d expect meetings to be quiet though, I mean without bg noise.
I’ve found the Select iN to be fantastic for meetings. So much easier to hear at work.
Restaurants are a bit better, still challenging as its picking up the kitchen noise and knives and forks clattering etc. But I was able to hear the girls at the table next to be deciding on what salad they were having for lunch.
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For those Phonak models with full bluetooth connectivity, I wonder if a bluetooth karaoke microphone would work good enough.
They are about $20 on ebay.
For some people they might. The big issue I’ve heard of is latency. Some people seem very sensitive to a slight delay–others not so much.
Amazing isn’t it? It’s almost like legal eavesdropping. And using it in meetings is a major plus.
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Btw, starkey released their table mic
They say it has 8 mics as opposed to 3 in select (6 beams but 3 mics).
Ok, works only with their latest HAs but its half price of select.
Something is moving
Enjoy reading your comments Blacky. Putting aside the effectiveness of the Roger Pen and Select, the cost factor is not only ridiculous, its out and out robbery. But can we really blame Phonak for trying to rip off the buying public? I mean most HA manufactures make HUGE PROFITS off selling aids since the price mark is is HUGE. Now I know many want to use the line - “Oh the research cost this and that and the general market for aid purchases is so small”. Well I don’t buy that baloney but thought I would attach this link just to show everyone what a hearing aid cost to make (alas a very cheap hearing aid).
“We have shown that it is possible to build a hearing aid for less than the price of a cup of coffee,” says Prof. Vinaya Manchaiah. “This is a first step, a platform technology, and we’ve shown that low cost doesn’t have to mean low quality.” The scientists are now developing a smaller version, that will contain about $7 worth of components.
So next time your Audi says “gee spend a $1000 plus on the Roger and or Select”, you might want to reply "So Phonak can make a $950 profit (plus). Think Not.
There are already dirt cheap amplifiers all over the place. Have at 'em.
Unfortunately in Australia there is the “Australia Tax” on almost everything here, its always about “Australia makes up less than 1% of the market” blah blah blah. But its not like the product was designed or made here, so it cant cost that much more.
The Roger Select iN is about $1700-$1800AUD here, the Starkey table microphone is about $845ish AUD.
My regular Audi tried to justify their price of $3400 for the Roger Select iN by saying that they incurred costs in fitting, setting up the trial etc. Companies will continue to charge highway robbery prices whilst there are people out there that are willing to pay it.
end rant
This at the link isn’t HA, unfortunately. It’s just an amplifier. If I remember correctly, it’s set up to help to some degree to people with some loss types.
Which I think it’s great!
Also, on that topic I think I expressed my concern about prices - the moment they include labour, in assembly, shipping and whatnot, it won’t be that dirty cheap anymore.
Yes, it’s still be cheaper than HAs, but it still won’t be HA.
HAs have to be properly fit for you in order to help you most.
This gadget will help people to hear somewhat better, and that’s great. Even if end cost is below 50 bucks.
But R&D done for one amplifier like this vs what goes into top brand HAs, is hugely different.
Also, bunch of price you pay for your HA/accessories is for your seller.
Eg phonak asks for select iN around 600 eur. Official price is 1000.
Regular pen is similar.
Marvel aid is around 1300 eur. Recommended selling price is around 2700-2800, and that is the price I was quoted at two places, or even higher.
Low prices are from my fitter, maybe others might have bigger discounts for them.
If you destroy HA shell, and bring parts, replacement is around 200 eur. Don’t know price for accessories.
Yes, we mostly pay for man hours, from R&D and our fitters.
That’s why it’s insanely important to find someone worth that money - those who will help you get the most out of it.
And my fitter didn’t say spend it, I asked him for it. He emphasized then ‘test test test’ and I have really long period for testing available, without paying anything (almost 3 months). And he asked me several times if it really helps. Same with comparison between level 70 and level 90 tech, do I really feel the difference and to explain to him when and where.
He said that many clients try 90, but don’t hear it so go with 70. And he thinks that if higher tech doesn’t bring you something noticeable, you shouldn’t spend money on it. Or on new platform 
So, there are some people out there who want you to get the best value for your money, and are eager to help you get there.
I said to him I’ll buy select from him, because of warranty and it is great product and I cannot find it cheaper anyway, but pen I’ll buy used since I can find it for 150 eur, and he said yeah, definitely go for it, he cannot match that price. I trialed both new with him.
The previous guy who immediately recommended select, was incapable to set up HAs so that I hear better with them than without them, that’s why I left. With a knowledge that select exist. So, he served some purpose 
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Cost of R&D is spread throughout all sold HAs in the world, or better yet, costs divided by estimated sells.
I can’t even imagine how expensive would it be for let’s say, first 100 buyers if manufacturer wanted to cover R&D from such a small batch. 
With other, I agree - find a proper fitter who wants to help you and not just rip you off. Shop around and don’t go to sellers only.
Quattro BTE size 13 batteries