@Blacky: Thank you for clarifying, I didn’t know about Roger X so far, my wife started with Marvels.
Ok, to follow your idea idea: I’ll buy 1x “Roger Pen iN” in UK, buy 1x Roger Select (no iN) whereever (ore vice versa), install the licenses from Pen iN into the Marvels (manual found here: https://www.phonakpro.com/content/dam/phonakpro/gc_hq/en/products_solutions/wireless_accessories/roger/documents/Installation_Guide_BtB_Roger_iN_microphones_210x297_EN_V1.00.pdf) and then try to do the same I described before having additional costs of one Rogen Pen iN. Following the Roger configurator this setting should work.
Yes, she uses a Samsung Galaxy A3.
Thanks @Blacky for the suggestions. I hadn’t thought of shutting off Auto-connect for my Roger streaming, but it’s worth a shot!
What Roger stuff did you end up with?
The Roger iN Pen doesn’t have Bluetooth. Not 100% sure of the Select.
The only Roger devices that I know of that have Bluetooth are the Pen 1.1 and the standard Select. Neither the Select iN, nor the Pen iN, nor the Easy Pen have Bluetooth.
#tooconfusing 
1 Like
Yup.
I have the select iN and ordinary pen, transferred licences usin select iN and they both work as mics. That part I’ve checked. But I didn’t manage to test your use case yet. I did find a way though, I’ll use skype assistant for testing calls, echo. Gimme some time
@Alvin I still haven’t bought anything, my fit ended being really complicated, but I have bunch of things on trial: select iN, regular pen 1.1 and tv connector on trial as well. And will add second HA next week to try that combo as well. It’s not ‘just low frequency hearing loss’ as things look like. I’ll post an update on my topic.
@Blacky, that’s fantastic that you have been given an opportunity to trial all that stuff. Might I ask a favour of you? Can you couple your Pen with your phone using Bluetooth and tell me what happens? I suspect you will get an endlessly repeating series of chimes playing through your hearing aids which will only go away when you turn off the Bluetooth on your Pen.
I’m curious to see if my experience is repeatable. The only difference between our hardware is that I have X-03 receivers, whereas you’re using the receivers from the iN device.
Thanks!
@Alvin will do, I’m already making notes what combination should I test, be it for myself or you folks here 
Yeah, I found one awesome fitter 
I’ll be in a possession of around 7 thousand euro worth of good in German market (ok probably even more, I use trial HAs, I belive they’re more expensive), and I didn’t even sign a paper, let alone gave deposit. He did scan my insurance card, so I guess that’s enough for him.
Ok yeah, that makes me a bit nervous, like ‘what if I accidentally spill drink on select, or my friend’, I don’t like to have other people’s things in my possession 
I’m trying to figure out best use case for the pen though. I was nervous to successfully try it in one shop today, there was decent amount of bg noise, but I think I didn’t aim it right (yeah, didn’t practice yet on my hubby), or my open fit messed that up (or my roger program settings) .
How do you use yours? Do you literally interview people or you have some more discreet move to aim?
@Blacky - that’s so funny. When I was trialing the Pen and the Select I kept losing the Select. I’d swear it was in my attache only to find it in my jacket, or I’d swear it was in my jacket only to find it covered with paper on my desk. Drove me nuts! Never lost the Pen though - not sure why.
For the most part, I only hand-aim the Pen when I’m attending presentations. I sit in the front row so I can still read lips and hold the Pen discretely in my lap while pointing it toward the presenter. Works great. I haven’t had an opportunity to use it in a more kinetic situation but I think it would be fun playing ‘reporter’.
Here’s two tips for you:
- Use the microphone orientation lock button. Phonak thinks it knows what you want, but it typically doesn’t.
- Even if you’re aiming it at someone, try and place the Pen on a flat surface. I think the resonance of whatever surface the Pen is on helps the Pen pick up the desired signal.
Thank you very much for helping me with the Bluetooth thing.
Yup, can confirm.
I tried unpairing all and repair in different order (various combinations), same thing.
If I put HA in flight mode, as it said it kills the BT (both normal and LE), however it also kills roger connection. That part I couldn’t find (what happens with roger direct in flight mode), but my tests show it behaves like that.
All connections are dead. Or in other words, same chip handles BT and roger connection (or at least, same power supply), that explains why they could put both of them in the same aid.
The moment pen enables BT, HA goes nuts.
This was on automatic roger program.
I’ll try with manual and report here if there’s any difference.
Edit: report - same thing. They just kill each other the moment I want to use mic program, and of course, switch back to autosense.
So, my conclusion is that no BT feature of regular pen 1.1 can be used with marvels, because they go crazy. They seem a bit better when both HA and pen are unpaired from phone (just few pings and then stop, but it’s because pen is searching for BT device), and the moment you pair ONLY pen with your phone, HA goes crazy, even if neither BT nor LE_BT from HA is officially connected to the phone.
So basically if you have Marvels and choose regular pen, DO NOT TOUCH phone call buttons since they activate the BT
Next idea would be to test proper BT mic, but I don’t have it, so someone else could try that, but I doubt it works because of what follows.
HA refuse to receive audio signal from call when it’s put into ‘audio only’, they only receive call sound when put to ‘call and audio’, but in that case they also steal the mic. Tested using skype echo assistant.
Only way that comes to my mind to split those two would be to use Y splitter audio+mic, then connect BT emitter to audio, connect HA onto that if they will obey*, and on the mic side again BT emitter to connect BT mic.
Regarding * - if you put roger select in place of that BT emitter it will work properly - redirect audio to the HA, with additional benefit of not using BT which I think uses more power than roger tech. Don’t hold me on my word about that though.
My phone (S8) can split the audio signal, but not for calls. It has to do with that tech explanation I’ve omitted earlier (even though phones allow to fork audio BT signal, since phones can’t process two mic inputs, they don’t even try, even though you might not plugin mic thing on one side of that fork - I don’t if new ASHA or whatever BT protocol is named brings changes in that area as well)
@Cologne maybe this above answers some of your questions.
If I forgot to test something and I have correct / enough gadgets, please let me know and I’ll try.
On the bright side, now I know how exactly flight mode works, and I might start using that as my default until I want BT/roger connection.
1 Like
Just tried this as well. Rumor.
If I walk away behind some walls and enough distance, yes crazy ring stops. But that’s if I leave both phone and pen in another room (air distance is roughly 8-9m plus one plaster and another cement wall in between).
When I brought pen with me, crazy rings are permanent.
And for this idea to work, pen’s mic should be used in call so you want them near you. I’ve tested holding my hand down, nope, still same problem.
If me and phone walk away, ringing stops - the moment phone loses connection to the pen.
‘Not work well together’ basically is constant switching of autosense to the point that you hear only those pings all the time and nothing in between, so, completely unusable so I’d say ‘they don’t work together’ omitting that ‘well’ because it gives some hope where there isn’t any 
2 Likes
This is bad news. At the moment I’ll stop purchasing preparations until some new features/products from Phonak will be released. Let’s see if I’m able to convince my wife wearing some special acoustic noise reflecting hats to improve call quality using the HA mics, but I’m note sure … 
You mean, back to the horns
I mean, wired mic on one side of forked audio + roger in on the audio side works really good. But it’s not wireless solution. But still expensive one 
Unless she has need for mic for her, then it would make sense to have that mic and as a bonus, you get better phone calls for the listeners.
I think release of new gadgets in HA industry is slow, so don’t hold your breath. I wouldn’t expect anything until the end of this year, and maybe even next one, be it from Phonak or Phonak Roger world.
If you have another info, please share
1 Like
@Blacky Thank you for confirming this, it’s great to know I’m not crazy! My wife sends you a big cyber-hug. She thinks I’ll finally be able to stop obsessing over Roger Bluetooth and get on with my life.
Further to your previous question about open fit affecting the performance of the Pen in noise, I’ve thought about it, and I think that’s a reasonable assumption. We could look at the math and try to determine the relative loudness of the noise passing directly into your ear and compare it to the Roger signal output at your receivers. I suspect the external noise was overwhelming the HA signal.
That’s one of the downsides to open fit.
If you look at my audiogram you can see that I don’t really need a closed fit. But despite the occlusion and the loss of ‘natural’ hearing in the lower frequencies, I can hear far better with my cShells than I could with domes.
Thank you again.
Glad to be of help
I’ll tag you in my topic when I compose the update, so we can discuss more there about things concerning my situation.
1 Like
@Cologne and I believe @Alvin would be interested to see this as well
So, I’ve tried various combinations to see what and how it works for calls for myself.
Phone samsung s8. Skype call echo assistant.
When I have BT shared to two audio, even if call isn’t audio BT call for me through marvels directly quality is pathetic, plus hard to understand. Mic side also sounds bad.
When I switch to single BT output in phone settings it gets a bit better but still nothing to rave about, mic sound a bit better (mind you I hear it through my bad ear at that point)
Then I tried my contraption/adapter, to split and test mic part as well. Now in game enters roger select iN. He on the one side, my headphones with mic on the other side (mostly for mic part)
Again, same caller, but now I could hear both her and my recording pretty well, loud and clearly.
Also, I checked both for youtube video streaming. Again, roger select iN + my adapter or directly with his cable, were clearer/better sound compared to BT.
Then I tried TV connector in place of select, still with my adapter. Did both call and youtube test (on the same video all the time), and guess what? Quality is on par with select used in a same way.
So, I’d suggest that @Cologne thinks about solution of buying phone output splitter to mic + audio, plugin TV connector into audio part, plug some wired mic into mic part. Yes TV connector wants external power, but I successfully made it work using battery pack (which I use to charge phone on the go).
For just listening, no need for adapter.
Total cost? Around 200 eur if you want new TV connector, one splitter that what, 5 eur with postage? battery pack, let’s be generous with 20 eur, and one mic (or some headphones with mic, works also) (so zero if you don’t have to buy it).
If you already have phonak TV connector, give it a try. It comes with male male audio cable which you can plugin into phone directly. Adapter/splitter is needed only for additional mic so for calls, but sound quality for your side even for skype call you can test without mic.
I know it’s wired solution, but maybe when your wife is planning to hear with someone and is at home, it could work
Edit: oh, few things. Bt call is different program in target than media bt stream than roger program. I had them as close to my autosense calm program as possible
By default phonak plays smart and automatically adjusts streaming programs based on calm + whatnot, end results were horrible to me, after my adjustment it’s decent, but I couldn’t literally clone the curves from calm, so I tried bringing them into the same range for all streaming programs and copy between them.
So I’d say the difference between BT and roger and tv connector in target lines are negligible, which I confirmed by having same listening experience between the two. However I didn’t pay attention in fine tuning other than curves, so some settings could be a bit different (like level of noise cancelling, amount of HA mics in the mix etc).
However, bt directly to HA was always poorer perfomer.
Current setup is fixed bandwidth for bt.
@Blacky Thanks a lot, we already have bought the TV Adapter. Currently I’m away from home for hiking, I’ll be back in a week and give it a try.
Results will be posted.
I’ve been told that Phonak still has no fix or workaround.
I suspect it’s actually the fault of Android (maybe Apple too). Android has never allowed control of bluetooth audio input/output like Windows, for security reasons or something.
I may have found a pretty good solution:
Many of those adapters have built-in microphones. Presumably, you could pair the adapter with Phonak aids, and then plug it into phone’s audio out (could use long cable and clip the adapter on shirt for hands free).
I would think that finding noise canceling headphones with the right size of cups over ears, would give way better bass, isolation and microphone (boom near mouth) with hearing aids than hearing aids ever could alone.
Thanks for the tip! That may come in very handy (because of the limitations built into phone OS). However, it’s just unrealistic to expect mics behind your ears to actually do a good job of picking up what’s coming out of your mouth. Excess noise makes this obvious. +19093900003 is a test service that will echo your audio back