I’m not convinced that it’s an Apple problem quite yet. But I do believe Phonak and Apple are working on the issue. Beta 2 should be coming out in the next few days.
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I work around some extremely noisy machinery. My audi’s secretary called me the other day to confirm my appointment while I was right in the center of the loudest machines. She commented that it was extremely noisy, but she could understand me. It was a very short phone call. If I remember, I’ll quiz her about it tomorrow.
My wife says the road noise when I am driving is a lot louder than it was with my Siemens EasyTek, but she also says I am easier to understand.
Aside from Phone calls, I also had a coworker tell me that he finds it easier to talk to me around those loud machines. I’m understanding him better, which makes conversation easier.
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It’s just a standard ANSI HA test of maximum output capability (and any gain) at that input level and just as you say, per the Starkey Pro manual on such tests, the results show nothing about distortion or clipping at that relatively high input level. But at least both brands of HA’s, until you get into the high frequency range, deliver as much output as they receive input - maybe that’s the point of such a graph? At what frequencies does the output actually fall below input? Because distortion or not, at that point, the HA is clearly unable to reflect the real-world volume of that frequency input sound.
At the rate I’m going, it’s going to be 2019 before I can afford to waste time messing around with graphic comparisons but it would be interesting to compare the Evoke 440 Fusions or whatever the model is that’s comparable to the Marvel’s and the Quattro’s. So if you have a link to the roughly equivalent Evoke datasheet, that would be great, if just for my own personal comparison outside of the forum. Thanks!
Widex raised the input level of their aids to stop microphone distortion on the front end, particularly for music where spikes over 100dB are common, and they did it before anyone else (I think). Both Marvel and Quattro have followed suit with their new aids. Others may have as well.
Link to Evoke 440 Fusion 2 Medium Receiver
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I tried Phonak’s transcription app, it was junk. 
It has a massive effect on the leakage of sound energy and feedback manager jumping all over the output though.
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So I looked at Phonak’s fitting software on his computer. The black hearing aids were not a color change kit, but a new set of aids. He transferred all of the programming, but wanted to re-do the feedback test. Right at the top of the screen, it said “Feedback and REM Test.”
I believe @Neville has a bunch of trial aids. Perhaps he can confirm?
That’s right, that is what that screen in Phonak Target says. It does the feedback test where it produces sounds in each ear. Not sure how you would use it for a REM test.
I think these are called Velvet Black. I really like them. 
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Interesting - looks like you opted to take the keepers off. I’ve heard the shape of the wire conforms better with the Marvels - do you find they stay in just fine without the keepers?
Yes. With my previous aids, I had a lot of troubles with the domes backing out. I went with custom molds, and then had troubles with them causing a lot of pain. Finally, my audi was able to grind them down to make them comfortable. I had just assumed that because my ears move so much, I would always need molds.
I was quite surprised that these stay in place. In an earlier post, I mentioned that the silver ones I had originally had wires that were too long, yet they still stayed in place. The keepers were iritating my ears, and the right one kept popping out, so I took them off to see how it would work, and everything worked out fine. The black ones came with a shorter wire and don’t budge. My wife says you almost can’t see them at all. Here’s some pics:
On the left is the Siemens with a custom mold. On the right is the Marvel. You can see how the wire fits a little better.
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Next week will start a trial of the Phonak Marvel’s Audeo M90-R for Andriod streaming and return the ReSound Quatro 9 61 rechargeable as Resound/Google has NOT provided streaming and saying it maybe sometime in the first quarter 2019. The Quatro pairs and connects to my Pixel 3 XL at the OS level , can change program and volume. The Resound App requires the pairing to be done only in the App. See screen shot.
Been following this thread, thanks all for the great information !
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That discussion you linked is from 2013. Has anything improved since then? If this is not a Real Ear measurement, then why is Phonak calling it that? I can tell you that these aids sound better than my Siemens did and the Siemens had Real Ear done on them.
It is A real ear measurement, but it is not the real-ear verification that we talk about a lot here. Phonak is taking a measurement of the feedback pathway, which also gives them an idea about the size of your ear canal and the venting.
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Tracking on your progress with the M’s. Thanks, BlueCrab.
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Nice! I want my next HAs flat or tech black like that.
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Earlier in this thread, you mentioned that you had tried “turning off Bluetooth” to no avail. How were you doing this? These days, using the iOS control panel and toggling the Bluetooth icon will not turn off Bluetooth, it turns off new connections (for 24 hours as I recall). To really turn Bluetooth off, you have to either go to the Settings app and turn it off in there, or (presumably) turn on Airplane mode.
I’ve been taking a lot of interest in this topic, and have been fitted with a pair of Marvels that I’ve been trying out for jjust under a week. I’ve been wearing aids for just on 7 years, and this is my 2nd pair - the last pair also being Phonak, so I only have limited experience, however did trial an Oticon pair before this set.
- The good. The bluetooth connectivity with my Samsung 8 is brilliant. Very clear voices on the other end, they hear my voice clearly too. Can’t express how impressed I am. I’ve also tried streaming music, and again - the music was clear, sharp and I couldn’t fault. However in the last few days almost everybody says my voice is muffled, and they can’t hear what I’m saying - and I’m wondering whether it is because I turned the bluetooth audio down? Streaming music was too loud - so I had the volume turned down, but would that also turn the microphone down?
- The bad. I’m not sure whether it is the dome size, but one of my ears is getting irritated and sore towards the end of the day. The domes seem a lot bigger than the ones on my old aids, so wondering whether this could be an issue. From reading comments on this forum, I was also hoping that clarity of sounds would be so much better with these aids - both in one on one situations and group - but I’m finding no difference at all - in fact if anything, sound is worse. What’s even more annoying is that the sound in one ear is permanently dull - like I have a blocked waxguard. I’ve tried replacing the waxguard to no avail however. Programs. Perhaps it was the way my aids were set up, but I can’t see any available - it appears standard or nothing.
I have another appointment with my audi tomorrow -perhaps that can explain all the questions I have so far - but wanted to provide my feedback.