Phonak Infinio Sphere - NOW HAS 10k Frequency range - why is no one talking about this?

Hearing Aids
#1

As part of the Phonak Infinio launch, the receivers are being upgraded from SDS 4.0 to SDS 6.0. One of the major changes is a massive increase to the maximum frequency range across all power levels.

This is a big deal right? I am currently on the UP receiver (SDS 4.0) which gives me a maximum frequency of 6100hz. With the Infinio, this is increased to 8000hz. Any experts here that can tell me what I can expect?

Frequency ranges - SDS 4.0 (REFERENCE)

  • S Receiver: <100 - >8000 Hz
  • M Receiver: <100 - >8000 Hz
  • P Receiver: <100 - 6300 Hz
  • UP Receiver: <100 - 6100 Hz

Frequency ranges - SDS 6.0 (REFERENCE)

  • S Receiver: <100 Hz - 10 000 Hz
  • M Receiver: <100 Hz - 10 000 Hz
  • P Receiver: <100 Hz - 7500 Hz
  • UP Receiver: <100 Hz - 8000 Hz
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#2

I noticed this and I mentioned it recently. I think it means that for those people who have very steep losses in high frequencies, they won’t be so reliant on frequency transposition, or soundrecover (the Phonak name), giving an improvement in clarity.

Xmems will extend this further when receivers come out with that technology.

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#3

Screenshot_20240829_140210_Chrome
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xMEMS frequency response.

#xMEMS

Source:

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#4

For me it would just mean MORE FEEDBACK :wink:
For someone with low frequency loss and closed ear molds it might be useful with music.

#5

I’m not sure if it give me benefits with my P receivers…

Increasing the upper limit of the frequency response from 6300 to 7500 Hz is unlikely to change much for me…

Perhaps if I were to change the earmold to be more occluding, then the M receiver might be better for me…

#6

I don’t think it’s going to make much (if any) difference. Look at the gain curves (Click on the REFERENCE link) There’s not much gain available out at 10,000 Hz.

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#7

Just adding to this, at the 6-8k frequency range, you’re just hearing the hiss of sounds. If you’re limited to 6100 Hz right now and it bumps up to 8k Hz, I wouldn’t expect to hear any real difference. I would go to youtube and check out what 8k Hz sounds like (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aKLiBUt2yY) IF you can even hear that, it doesn’t translate to much in the real world.

Just for some perspective here, when recording instruments, voices, etc. All of those frequencies are rolled off because they add nothing to the sound. So not to rain on anyones parade but Don’t expect a huge change with the increase of frequency range. HAs more than cover the range of the human voice.

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#8

I know about the speech frequency range. I can even hear 8000 Hz with my Paradise with P receiver, b̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶v̶o̶l̶u̶m̶e̶.̶

EDIT: I checked more precisely today. With my P receiver (SDS 4.0), I hear quite well the high frequencies of 8–11 kHz (sic!) in the tone generator playing through the speakers.

As speculated, the worst audible pitches are in the 1,300–2,500 Hz range.

[END OF EDIT]

However, I have read that e.g. EarLens with high bandwidth (up to 10kHz) give better audibility and speech understanding.

#9

@Ryan_D, see the video about Earlens from about 3:55:

@MDB, thanks. I compared the gains. Indeed, there is not much difference at all. It seems Oticon makes better receivers for high frequencies (Dr Cliff also said that).

#10

Yes, that was my thought, too! I’d rather they shrink the size of chips going in these Sphere Infinios than add freqs I can’t even appreciate. The Infinio I saw this week is a BIG BRUISIN’ BEAN! It is simply too BULKY for me to ever consider, no matter what the speech clarity is.

#11

I am not sure whether cutting frequencies is good for speech understanding. Problems with hissing may be solved by adequate programming, noise cancellation, or AI denoising…

See:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4549240/

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#12

I don’t think it’s really a chip issue, but more the actual receivers. Anyone know which hearing aid brand has the best receivers on the market at the moment?

#13

I think Phonak’s are the best because they offer amplification up to 105 dB. I use Power receivers from the Power dome and I am satisfied. A custom mold will create additional costs and more complications for me.

#14

I am Phonak guy, but datasheets suggest that Oticon receivers have better high frequency response:

#15

That graph represents 10-20kHz frequency range (and such is the advertised response) if you haven’t noticed, it’s a log scale, and as noted under it (in the spec sheet), the peak is at 13,6kHz.

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#16

Phonak does frequency shifting so make sure it’s turned off when testing. P receivers for all brands (not only Phonak) have lower frequency response than M and S receivers. If you’re hearing frequencies which aren’t on the spec sheet, something obviously isn’t right.

#17

Indeed, it is.

I have SoundRecover2 turned off, and I hear it evidently higher, but your remark to make sure about it is right. As you can see, my audiogram improves in the highest frequencies maybe this is the cause.

#18

There’s more to life than human speech and with current tech consumers expect more. There are musicians on this forum too.

Personally, I wouldn’t be able to mask my tinnitus which sits at the edge of 8kHz without proper frequency range. I do quite enjoy listening to the birds every morning too (which often go above 8kHz).

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#19

Screenshot_20240831_213421_LinkedIn
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Here is 30-day link for video (originally in Linked in also woth poor quality):

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#20

I am a musician and I can tell you that there’s not a recording out there that isn’t rolling the highs off at 6-8k because its nothing but hiss. You’re totally right about birds but I think audiologists often use that analogy to describe the pitch of 8k+ but the bulk of the bird call you’re hearing is not at 8k. Anyways, its just my opinion and your point about the tinnitus is valid. I just don’t think having a frequency response up to 10k means nearly as much as marketing wants you to believe.

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