Oticon v Phonak hearing aids to use with Roger Equipment and Private Audiologist v NHS

Hearing Aids
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#1

Apologies in advance for the long essay but I’m at my wits end!

I live in the UK and have congenital mild to moderate high frequency hearing loss in both ears. I managed without hearing aids until my hearing also started to deteriorate with age (I’m in my early 60s). It’s now so bad that even with HAs in, I often struggle to understand what is being said to me at home or work and listening to the radio or TV (even with sound turned up) is no longer enjoyable. I am driving myself and my (very loving but frustrated) family crazy by keep asking people to repeat things!

I live in the UK and was first prescribed Oticon HAs on the NHS ten years ago but rarely wore them as I had no idea until recently how important it is to do this asap. The NHS upgraded my HAs to Oticon Engage 85 HAs 3.5 years ago but I’ve never been able to tolerate them for longer than a few hours and the RHS one keeps popping out. I hate, loathe and detest wearing them! I know I need to persevere and I do try but they make me want to rip my (very small) ears off!

A few months ago, an Access to Work assessor recommended a number of pieces of Roger equipment for me including a Roger-On 2, a table top thingy and a roving mic (I teach, lecture and run workshops). I know I’m very lucky to have been awarded all these things and really want to make the best use of it all. However, to use the Roger equipment, an adaptor has to be inserted into my Oticon HAs - but I need to find someone to change the door on my Oticons so this can be fitted. The NHS don’t want to know and private providers are loathe to do this in case they damage the NHS equipment! Given I already struggle to cope with my Oticons, I suspect adding adapters to them is going to make a bad situation worse!

I had an NHS audiology appointment last month and despite telling the (trainee) audiologist I was struggling and explaining about connecting to the Roger equipment, she simply changed the tubing length, fitted retainers and gave me different sized ear buds. Consequently, I am thinking of going private to get Phonak HAs that I can hopefully get on better with and won’t need adaptors to link to the Roger equipment.

I’m considering getting Phonak Sphere HAs. If I’m going to shell out thousands of pounds when money is tight, I’d rather pay a bit more to get the most comfortable and best sound HA with the best tech available in the hope of getting HAs that will be able to cope with tech now and for the next 3-5 years. The thing that puts me off is the Spheres are larger than other HAs although I’m not sure how they compare to my Oticons with the Roger adapters.

I would really appreciate any advice

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#2

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You would have to wear an audio shoe and Roger X on the end of your Oticon Engage.

My Oticon Xceed is bigger then the Oticon Engage but the Engage is bigger then the new Phonak Aid as the Engage is a BTE Aids where the new Phonak Aids are RIC Aids.

Up to date Phonak Aids work much better with the Roger System.

I’m in the UK as well and have NHS Aids.

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#3

This is your hearing aids and you would have to add a shoe like shown in the YT.

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#4

This is the pin you need to buy to change the doors.

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#5

Thank you @Zebras - your info and pic is very helpful. AtW have supplied the adapter and shoe but it needs the battery door to my Oticon Engage to be changed in order to fit (also supplied but I need a specialist to do this as I’m worried about breaking the Oticons and getting billed by the NHS!

Is the red bit in your pic a moulded earpiece and was that done by the NHS. I suspect part of the reason I find my Oticons so uncomfortable and frustrating is the earbuds just keep popping out every few minutes. When I told the audiologist this she just changed the buds and told me to try those. I’m soooooo frustrated that I could (and do) cry!

#6

@Nenen_UK

You won’t break them and it’s very simple to do, just don’t loose the pin when it comes out.

Have you got a family member to help you?

If you’re near FM Hearing Systems then they would help you. They also provide Access to Work equipment.

My ear moulds are private but NHS Aids.

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#7

Thanks again for the further info and pics. Unfortunately, I’m a long way from Yorkshire as I live near Cambridge in East Anglia. I haven’t got anyone who would want to do this for me as my husband’s hands are crippled with arthritis and my (adult) children would probably be too worried about damaging them. I could have a go myself as I’m quite good with fiddly things but I just wasn’t sure it was worth the hassle and risk when I hate the Oticons so much anyway!

I’m now wondering if I can find a local audiologist or similar who can advise me on getting private ear moulds as I’m guessing that would be a much cheaper option than private Phonak HAs. Might be worth a try!

#8

Hi,

I too live in East Anglia, near Cambridge. I work near Ely and have used a guy at quantum audiology in the town center at Ely:

He was very reasonable. Charged £40 pound an hour for adjustments, not pushy at all. I believe he should be able to sort out your moulds. I would recommend him or one of the smaller outfits in some of the neighbouring towns to Cambridge rather than anybody in central Cambridge t.b.h, in terms of cost.

With respect to your general Oticon V Phonak HA question, I think you have to assess how much difficulty you are having in your current lifestyle and what you want to achieve. The Oticon Engage is a good aid and I can see from your loss that you have a mild/moderate loss. I don’t know how much difficulty you have in challenging situations, but I assume you are having some difficulty because you have made enquiries about the Roger.

There are some people with a mild/moderate loss who are fairly inactive who have said on this site already that they are not bothered about getting the Sphere, and they will be happy with the infinio. In your case, it’s whether you stick or twist with the Oticons and then make use of the Roger.

Personally, I would solve the mould issue first. The mould issue is nothing to do with the fact that it’s an Oticon. In terms of tech, Oticon is up there with Phonak. The Engage, although a model from 2016 was one of the most successful launches ever of an aid. You could still have mould issues with a Phonak, it’s not really related to the brand.

If you want to go for the latest tech, Phonak is certainly an option, but Oticon also has their latest model, which is the Intent. The dilemma is whether you think it’s worth paying for i.e. it gives you something over and above what the NHS is giving you. In my experience this is debatable and can be a no as the NHS usually provide a very good fit and provide real ear measurement, especially if you find a private audiologist who is inexperienced in programming a particular brand. On the other hand, sometimes, because of the post code lottery, there may be no provision or the NHS don’t provide a good fit. Where the NHS is probably weaker is in providing the very latest tech, such as the Spheres. But before you rush out and buy the spheres, ask yourself if you can hear quite well in a crowdy, noisy environment. If you can, then it’s pointless getting the spheres in my view.

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#9

This is the battery door

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#10

The red service tool (Oticon Pin Tool)

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#11

I would definitely recommend a Roger device. I have NHS Phonak hearing aids (Nathos Nova) which work fine with Roger. They’re a few years behind the curve, but definitely good enough for what I need (navigating work, home life etc).

My 20 odd year experience with NHS audiology is it’s all very mixed. Sometimes you have to go back again and again to get what you need. I was initially fitted with HAs that seemed to be made of cheese for all the good they were - I was an active, sporty 20 something and my HAs were highly susceptible to sweat. Perfect! I must have killed four or five pairs before they either got the hint or ran out of stock and moved me onto something more reliable!

Equally I find resources like HearingTracker are a great way to tee up the questions you need to ask or other options to push for. If the aids you have don’t work for you, it’s worth going back to say so and ask for an alternative that works for your needs.

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#12

Many thanks for the information and local recommendation @glucas - making an appointment with the Ely audio certainly feels like a great way to start exploring my options. I think you’re right re sorting out moulds first too.

Although my hearing loss is only mild to moderate, according to the audiologist, it is the high frequency loss I have which most disrupts clarity of speech as the sh/ch/th/s sounds are lost at this pitch, which often makes people incomprehensible to me. Additionally, I often work with large groups of children, whose voices are high pitched and I run conferences and workshops where there is lots of background noise that makes hearing some adults extremely difficult too.

My last NHS assessment was done by a trainee audiologist at Addenbrookes. When she introduced herself to me, I fully expected a qualified audiologist would appear at some point to confirm the trainee’s diagnosis and recommendations- but that did not happen. Instead, she ignored my explanation of all the problems I’d been having and I was sent away with my old Oticons that she’d simply changed the buds. Paying £40 an hour for an experienced, qualified audiologist’s advice sounds an excellent idea! Thanks again.

#13

I have to add that I paid £40 an hour a while back. I am not sure what the charges are now, but I would still recommend in first instance trying to sort out the mould issues and then there may be a possibility he can provide some fitting assistance, although NHS aids may be locked.

If you are working with large groups of children, I can see your problem now. You could benefit from Roger, certainly, as the previous poster said. I also saw your first post, where you said you were having difficulty with the TV. In actual fact Oticon have products to help with these situations as well - the Connect Clip, which has a remote microphone and the Oticon TV Adaptor:

If you can get funding assistance, the Edu Mic classroom remote may also help. They will all be able to connect to your Engage aids. Just going back to the TV, I cannot recommend something like the TV Adpator enough. If you’ve never experienced it, you will find that it’s stereo sound, streamed straight into your ears, and it should make the TV a lot easier.

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#14

Thanks again @glucas . I will certainly look into the Oticon Tv adaptor.
Just to clarify, do you mean I should try to sort out the mould issues with the NHS audiologist or with the Ely audio privately?

#15

Personally I would go back to the NHS and try to speak to a senior audiologist and explain the problem, and say it’s really affecting your job etc. I think if you get no satisfaction after that or they cannot see you within a couple of months, then go private. I think they maybe just assume everything’s Okay.

I would even mention the other issues to see if they can do fine tuning or whether they recommend assistive devices, like the TV Adaptor, Edu Mic etc.

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#16

Hi @Nenen_UK , and welcome. You really have come to the best place on the internet for your current predicament. Regarding above, this is the very response I got from my area NHS audiologist. Mine were Phonak Marvels, but their response was the same, just changed the tubes, even though I told I’d done it 2 days prior. I finally went private, where the Audiologist spent far more time and effort. She frankly didn’t know what she was doing.

I knew the hearing aids were good, but private Audiologists generally won’t touch them.

Your high frequency loss is only a little less than mine, and I’d say you’d definitely benefit in the higher frequencies from some kind of mould. The NHS tried to fob me off with domes. I had to insist on moulds.

I can only comment on Phonak, as I haven’t had Oticon since about 2010, but if you were to go Phonak, I believe any from 2019 onwards would give you the gain you need, as long as feedback control is properly programmed. That’s virtually any from the Marvel, Paradise, Lumity or Infinio. They’re all Roger compatible (just need licenses installing), so no shoes required.

One note on your excellent Roger On v2. It’s very capable, and has just been upgraded to be even better. However, if they haven’t given you the high frequency gain correctly in your HA fitting, it will still leave you a little short through the Roger. My next step would to return to NHS Audiology for a proper adjustment (I’ve found boosting the G50 from 1.5k upwards really helped me). I’d also ask for moulds to be made, for the very reason you can detect speech in the high frequencies. If this works, all well and good. If it doesn’t, you’ll have a better pair of spare aids.

Many of us on here programme our own now, so we can tell when people are being fobbed off by the NHS Audiology teams.

Good Luck, @Zebras @glucas @garethjwells @firenzel are all superb on here.

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