Oticon More3 With VAC+ & NAL-NL2 Installed [Notes & Conclusions]

Hearing Aids
#44

MrsSpudGunner’s Chemistry Analyser Webinar …

HerSelf®️is listening to a webinar on the iPad. When I turn the volume up +3 clicks in NAL-NL2, and engage “MoreSound Booster”, I can understand what is being said, seated 10’ away.

When I toggle over to VAC+, turn up the volume by +3 clicks, and engage “MoreSound Booster”, I only know someone is speaking: I can pick out the odd word, but I can’t make out the meaning of the whole sentences being spoken.

The impediment to comprehension in VAC+ seems to be excessive “whooshing” sounds made when the narrator says “s” or “sh”.

[:flying_saucer: Engage, Mr Data!]

#45

Maybe you have the VAC+ program engaged with Speech Rescue turned on, but your NL2 program doesn’t have Speech Rescue turned on?

Below is an example screenshot of Speech Rescue. If you indeed have it turned on in the VAC+ program and find the “s” or “sh” too excessively pronounced, just turn the strength down to either the medium or low setting. And based on your hearing loss, I’d suggest the leftmost 2.4 configuration.

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#46

@Volusiano: Thank you! The screenshots you’re providing me will make it very easy to remember and communicate to my audi the important things we have to tweak.

I want you to know that I appreciate the effort you’re putting into my erudition, and I’m very grateful.

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#47

As long as you have a PC on Windows, you can download a free version of Genie 2 so you can play around with it. You don’t really need the hardware to connect to your hearing aids if all you want to do is play around with the menu.

As you can see in my screenshot, I don’t have the More HAs but I went ahead and created a virtual user and fitted him with the More 1 and just use my own audiogram. Or you can just make up an imaginary audiogram as well. Then I fitted it with bass domes and off I go. At least this way I can browse around to see what all the features and functionalities are associated with the More.

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#48

Nope, no PC with Windows here …

:confused:

#49

@Neville and @Volusiano: I’m going to act like the noob that I am and try to offload some grunt work on YOU! :laughing:

Could you please help me draft [lie: I want you to do it for me, truth be known] a paragraph that explains to my competent audi how to program VAC+, NAL-NL2, and DSL-v5.0 (adult) into my machines such that their individual characteristics/performance parameters remain as distinct as possible.

Also - I’m still fuzzy on what other features (compression, noise suppression, speech rescue, etc.) he and I should be reviewing/tweaking. The same fuzziness prevails in my understanding of how my music program ought to be tweaked.

[Now … I’m not asking you guys to do ALL my work: I will fix typos, missing punctuation and indents, dangling participles and such things, as the need arises!]

#50

I’ll make the assumption you are using a computer and it is an Apple - if so, you can install Windows using Boot Camp from Apple. Genie 2 runs well for me using either a MacBook Pro (older 2016 15-inch model) running 10.14.6 or an iMac Pro running 10.15.7. I’m using Windows 10 in the Boot Camp disk partition. :slight_smile:

#51

Sorry, @biggar: invalid assumption. We have only an iPad Air (3) here.

… and I’m so fed up with Microsoft from my work days, that I’m not anxious to "foul my nest " with any incarnation of Windows. [Chuck @cvkemp might even second the motion.]

But thanks for offering to help me.:+1:t2: I sincerely appreciate your effort.

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#52

I was a Microsoft Certified System Engineer at retirement, I scraped or gave away all of my windows computers and devices and have never been happier than I am now without Microsoft in my life. I can sleep knowing that Microsoft didn’t push an update that crashed my computer. Or that some device I connected didn’t load a device driver that crashes the system. Yes I have the IPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and MacBook Air and I have no regrets.

3 Likes
#53

@cvkemp: Thanks for piping up, Chuck. I had a feeling that you would concur.

[Wow … you really were/are an UberGeek!]

#54

I started as an Electronics Technician, then moved to associate Electronics engineer, with a hobby of computers. And I couldn’t give it a rest and turned my hobby into a full time paying job. Yes it was good money, but a hell of stressful job. And never any time off. I couldn’t even get away from it when on vacation or being sick, or having funerals to go to. I am so glad to be retired and back doing peaceful things.

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#55

Based on my understanding of Neville’s explanation, to truly retain the characteristic of VAC+, you should have a program using VAC+ that is not adjusted based on REM result because the REM result can only be targeted to a standard rationale (like NL2) that is not VAC+. That basically means not do REM at all for the VAC+ program.

For the program that has NL2, the audi should do REM targeted to NL2 only. Same with the program for DSLv5, it should have REM done that is targeted to DSLv5 only. If the audi can only target REM to NL2 only, for example, then REM (targeted to NL2) should not be done on DSLv5. In this case, don’t do REM on the DSLv5 program.

As for using Speech Rescue or not, I think your steep ski slope hearing loss can benefit from it. I would use the leftmost 2.4 configuration with Medium strength. If you don’t have any issue with feedback then I would leave High Frequency Band to ON. If you find the “s” and “sh” too pronounced, then go to Low strength. I would apply it to all programs so that you can have apple to apple comparison.

As for noise suppression, I would set to max for both Easy and Difficult environments at 4dB and 10dB respectively. See example screenshot below.

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#56

@Volusiano: Thank you very much for this very clear help. I will send it to my audiologist ahead of our April 15 appointment. (He’ll appreciate the comments from his peers, too.)

#57

Thus far in my exploration of VAC+/NAL-NL2/telecoil/Music programs, I’ve been using my nylon-strung Taylor, unplugged, to assess how the dedicated music program stacked up against VAC+ and NL2.

In these explorations, VAC+ has produced the most pleasant sound in my head. The music program is “snappier” and louder, but has a harsh edge to it.

This morning, I fired up my VibroChamp and ran through my HA programs - amplified, this time.

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This is a pure Class A tube amp, which is quite mellow-sounding, usually. This morning, the Music program was a big FAIL! It was way too harsh and brittle-sounding.

By contrast, VAC+ and NL2 produced much more musical sounds, without having to run the guitar signal through a semi-parametric EQ. I found the Music program so unpleasant that I abandoned it after only a few minutes.

I’m going to ask my audi whether he wants me to bring a guitar to my next appointment (we’ve already contemplated this) to see what can be done with the Music program to make it useable …

I’m more curious about how DSLv.5 will process the music. I will make sure that the two non-Oticon fitting rationales are adjusted using in situ measurements alone so that they retain their individual characteristics.

This small report FYI.

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#58

As far as I can tell, you either have the gain prescription based on your original audiogram, or do an in-situ test in Genie 2 and prescribe the gain based on the new in-situ result instead of based on your original audiogram.

The REM test and adjustment is done on top of your gain prescription (whether this prescription is based on the in-situ or the original audiogram is irrelevant at this poinnt). It is the fitting rationale target selected for and used by the REM that will alter the characteristics of the fitting rationale if the target is not the same as the fitting rationale. If you want your DSLv5 fitting rationale to remain unaltered, ask the audi to use DSLv5 target when he/she does REM adjustment for that program that has DSLv5. And use the NL2 target when doing REM adjustment for the program that has NL2. And don’t do REM for the program with VAC+ because it’s a proprietary rationale by Oticon so there’s no REM target available for it.

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#59

@Volusiano: Thanks for your clarification … I think I understand, now .

[Say, V , I couldn’t persuade you to attend the appointment with me, could I? … Please?]

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#60

I’m quite surprised to hear that the Music program fails for you. They basically turn off the deep neural network stuff (the MoreSound Intelligence) to minimize any of the special processing. So you should hear everything coming in as is, unprocessed.

If it’s too bight and harsh sounding for you, I wonder if your audi has enabled Speech Rescue for you in the other programs but disabled it for you in the Music program. This may explain why it may sound too bright and harsh for you.

If you don’t have Speech Rescue in any of the programs for you, one thing you can have your audi try is to change just for the Music program, is to change the Sound Controls setting called Brightness Perception in the Fine Tuning section to “Fuller” instead of “Brighter”. This may help warm it up a it. You can also try to set the Soft Sound Perception there to Comfort instead of Detail as well to see if that also helps. The screenshot below shows those parameters mentioned.

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#61

@Volusiano: :frowning:Oh, MAN! I’m taking notes, but how am I ever going to remember all this stuff? I really “get” why you DIYers get into it, but I don’t think VAC would approve of my diddling around with very expensive hearing instruments!

I’ll make some more notes tonight, and hope that not too much falls between the cracks.

Thank you very much for providing me with all this valuable guidance.

As to the Music program “Fail”, it surprised me, too. Usually, the 6V6 tube in the VibroChamp has enough intrinsic compression to tame the ice-pick-like attack transient of the piezo bridge pickup (there’s also an inertial sensor/mic attached to the underside of the top table that’s not so spikey).

That certainly didn’t happen this morning. In fairness, I usually run the Taylor through an LR Baggs semi parametric ED/direct box to eliminate these issues, however, the sound I was getting from the VAC+ and NL2 programs was passable.

The crappy sound was clearly a function of the Music program.

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#62

@Volusiano’s Office

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#63

After allowing my brain to get used to NAL- NL2, I’m inclined to delete it from my machines - there’s not enough difference from my VAC+ to warrant keeping it.

I’m going to try DSL v.5.0 (adult), instead.