[
I apologize for this being off-topic - but I should automatically add EDIT1: spelling/EDIT2: syntax/EDIT3: grammar on the end of everything I post!]
1 Like
WH
(Post must be at least 20char…)
I am a bit skeptical regarding this.
If the hearing aids it’s programmed exactly like your aids, the person should hear like you.
The size of ear and the molds can influence a bit, but no so much.
Do you want to say what the brains can be so different and perceive sounds in a completely different way, regarding the physical hearing loss being the same?
You can be skeptical, but it isn’t my job to fix. I started to write a thesis. But nope.
1 Like
If this were the case, it would seem we would all agree on what the best aids are. Instead we get fairly random comments that “x” aid was awful beause: (fill in the blank) Aids should sound pretty much alike if tuned properly. What does differ is features ranging from apps, button functionality, ability to deal with feedback (although domes/molds greatly influence this) streaming, bluetooth compatibilility, etc.
3 Likes
If you want to interpret it that way, then sure. Talk to hearing specialists and audiologists. The brain plays a pretty major role in interpreting sound. That’s why good specialists always recommend you try more than one type of aid.
2 Likes
@habasescu.nicu: Again, I must challenge you for making assertions that are not supported by facts. If you do more reading here on the site, you will soon discover just how individual hearing perception and HA fitting are.
It’s not like spectacles where you measure an aberration and have a standard correction for it, according to the laws of physics.
[Edit: If I allow this false assertion to go unchallenged, I’m facilitating the propagation of a myth that causes many new users to have false expectations (that they will hear as well as someone else did who has the same aids) resulting in their making poor choices of devices and failing to appreciate the degree to which their own “brain retraining” is crucial to the satisfaction they derive from their HAs and to the successful long-term treatment of their individual and particular hearing loss.]
6 Likes
Yeah Jim, I have yet to see 2 exact audiograms, you will see very similar, but IMO never exact… They are kinda like fingerprints, or Perhaps DNA, your hearing loss is unique to you as an individual… If you then throw in the mix, things like, Recruitment, Hyperacusis, or Tinnitus, then add your likes, and dislikes to say music, not to mention, how long you have been aided, and ultimately the actual sound emerging from each aid is slightly different, even if two aids are set up exactly the same, for a similar loss, you might like the sound from that Oticon, but I might hate it, but the Phonak sounds better to me, and vice versa… It is such a diverse subject, and only trialling an aid over an extensive period fills in the blanks, although if you are a fairly experienced user, you know fairly quickly if these new aids will cut the mustard, YMMV… Cheers Kev
5 Likes
The same hearing loss (same audiogram) could have many different physical causes, without even considering brain function. An audiogram is a very imprecise description of hearing loss. All it tells you is the approximate amount that a limited set of pure tones is attenuated.
3 Likes
No, that isn’t the case. Aids by different manufacturers are different; they have different characteristics. Also, people have different hearing loss and unlike with eye glasses, the same prescription does not result in the same correction. Some frequencies are gone for good. Hearing aids help us to understand speech, which is their primary goal, but different brands use different methods to do so.
2 Likes
We can agree to disagree. There’s very little evidence to cite except anecdotes. My opinion is based on a few studies that seem to suggest little difference. One showing most people couldn’t tell the difference between “advanced” aids and basic aids and another showing some people preferring placebo aids to the real thing. There’s also evidence to suggest that a good hearing aid fitter makes a difference. The other thing that really influences my opinion is the way hearing aid manufacturers market. It’s generally nebulous market hype rather than any kind of objective data. I do think different manufacturers have different “flavors” that come through with their default settings, but I think that can be altered by a good hearing aid fitter. But again, this is just my opinion.
2 Likes
So ReSound LiNX2 could be made to sound like ReSound One with the right tuning? If not, then your statement needs some qualification. If you say they could sound the same, then, well, what was the point of developing new technology?
1 Like
Perhaps we’re talking semantics. The new technology is for new features and refining old ones so things work better. The sound is controlled by the tuning software. When somebody says they don’t like X brand because it’s too sharp, they’re complaining about the tuning. If you’re counting noise management in how the hearing aid sounds, then I’ll agree they are different (but not as much as some people on the forum claim) I’m also basing my thoughts on what I’ve heard from some of the audiologists on the forum that basically all the major brands are very close to each other in performance.
1 Like
YES! All the difference in the world. Without an audiologist who understands the hearing loss and what tools (aids) are available to treat the loss, it would be a mess driven by market forces only.
“…another showing some people preferring placebo aids…” if you have access to these studies, please post them.
Maybe later. They’re likely on the forum somewhere but I admit the search function is less than ideal. Our tendency to have threads go every which way doesn’t help.
Here’s another. Yes, people preferred the well adjusted hearing aid, but 36% would have bought the placebo. Study of Hearing-Aid Outcomes in Older Adults - ASHA Journals Academy
But there’s a lot more than just tuning on a hearing aid. Tuning is only one small part of it.
Most major hearing aids have their own proprietary fitting rationales, which would make them sound different. Of course if you modify the tuning of one hearing aid brand/model to match with the tuning of another brand/model that’s driven by its own proprietary fitting rationale, than you’re just mimicking it. But it’s not normally feasible unless the HCP has to fit you with both brands/models then try to copy/mimic one tuning to match the other, which is something the HCP has to be willing to do in the first place.
So the statement that all HAs can sound exactly the same AS LONG AS THEY’RE TUNED TO BE THE SAME is a very fluffy statement that’s normally unrealistic and not practical to achieve in the first place without a lot of effort on the HCP, something that the HCP is very unlikely willing to do unless you insist and are willing to spend the money to compensate the HCP for the time and effort. Then the obvious question is if you want the sound of brand Y, why don’t you just get brand Y instead of getting brand X then try to tune brand X to sound the same as brand Y.
And we haven’t even gotten to other very relevant things that can make the sound veer off and vary greatly, like frequency lowering, how wide range the input dynamic is for listening to louder music without too much compression or a chance of distortion. Then there’s also transient noise management, feedback control, and on and on.
I personally reject the notion that all HAs can be made to sound the same because it really serves no good purpose to make this statement. I’m OK with saying that most modern HAs are mostly equally effective and helpful in most cases. But to suggest that you can tune brand X to sound like brand Y is an oxymoron in the first place because why wouldn’t you just by brand Y right off the bat, instead of trying to tune brand X to sound like brand Y so that you can buy brand X?
The bottom line is that what people like about the sound of a brand is usually and mostly how it sounds through the proprietary fitting rationale of that brand that’s mostly used by people in the first place. Now if you like a standard fitting rationale like NAL-NL2 for example, and you’re going to use that fitting rationale regardless of whether you buy brand X or brand Y, then OK, the difference in terms of how it sounds would be more similar between the 2 brands. But again, this is not counting other important features like frequency lowering and input range dynamics and especially how noise reduction is managed, which are all very crucial and can make things sound very different right off the bat.
5 Likes
I’ve told this story here somewhere before, but I had a patient trialing a phonak hearing aid and a widex hearing aid. He preferred the phonak hearing aid sound, but liked the widex app. I matched the hearing aids in testbox. He noticed the loss of the adaptive frequency lowering, but it was close enough and he happily took the widex hearing aid.
Actually, now that I’m thinking about it I had another patient who tried two sets of hearing aids and reported liking the one in quiet situations and the other in noisy situations and he was getting ready to pay some $12000 to get both sets AND make them both roger compatible. He was so ready to do this that I had to insist that he let me try to match, but i did and he ended up only getting the one set.
I would say the vast majority of time I demo multiple sets of hearing aids, patients pick based on extra features not based on sound quality because they all sound fairly similar. Or, if there’s a big difference, I can MAKE them sound more similar.
I’m skeptical of a lot of the talk on these forums about how different hearing aids are in basic sound quality because I’m always skeptical that they have been set identically. In a huge number of cases, real-ear isn’t being performed. But even when it is being performed, the audiologist is taking your feedback during the process so if you didn’t like set #1 for various reasons that they think they can resolve through adjustement, when they give you set #2 they will make those adjustments. I wonder how often it’s set #2 that magically sounds better. Further, matching things precisely takes some work. But give me a quiet hour and I’ll bet I can make your Oticon More sound just like your Phonak Pico Forte. Note again, I’m not talking automatic features and performance in noise, just basic sound quality.
6 Likes