Oticon More "deep neural network" processing: Does it WORK?

Hearing Aids Manufacturer Support
#41

With my Phonak Marvel aids I also hear fan noises (even the exhaust fan in our bathroom 2 rooms over!), birds chirping outside, traffic outside the window, fridge fan, dishwasher, etc., so I don’t feel like it’s completely 2-dimensional. I can understand what my husband is asking me when I’m in the laundry room downstairs and he’s up in the living room. It seems that boosting certain frequencies in these aids has made me almost normal in hearing. (but put me in a loud restaurant and it’s a different story, LOL!)

By contrast, when I wore the OPNs for 9 mos, I think there were some frequencies or noises that may have been too LOUD that overwhelmed the speech program in my OPNs.

F’instance: I was getting an annual mamogram. Could NOT comprehend what the techncian was saying to me over the seemingly ROARING HVAC in the exam room. Or, we’d be at a nice deli chatting up with the owner, and for the life of me I could NOT comprehend what she was saying, altho her mouth moved, and hubs was right there firing back the replies. Or shopping at Costco, the ambient noise of the store was simply 5 times louder than the cashier asking me if I “mfeppfj fownh foeitil e8pensh?” Could not compute.

Boggles my mind how we all adapt so differently to our devices, given our brains or some kind of magic! I would like to give the Oticon More a try, (and I bet my dear audi would let me do so!) but I also want to cut to the chase and get something that delivers superb sound quality AND handles speech in noisy places better than any other brand.

We shall see! On top of pandemic excitement, the 17-yr rental unit we’ve been in was sold out from under us. So we have a couple months to get relocated. Maybe it would be wise to find an audi in the new city, but my audi of 15 yrs sure knows my issues and goals! :slightly_smiling_face:

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#42

Well now, that is a lovely biog! Sounds like you are enjoying a new level of quality of life away from an office while still being able to add value and contribute SO MUCH MORE to many causes. Hey, I’m into Japanese woodblock coloring books - mine’s packed up now, but I also printed out several copies of the book page and tinkered with techniques and colors. I’m a total multi-tasker keeping track of things on the calendar even as I’m doing 3 things at once.

So WHY can’t my brain adapt to Oticon aids? That is but one of the eternal mysteries of life! :slightly_smiling_face:

#43

It may not be your brain it may be the level and type of hearing loss. Maybe you cannot handle the signal to noise ratios needed. When I first started wearing hearing aids I couldn’t stand any noise or any loud talking, over time I was able to adapt, but I have been honestly told that not that many can readapt to noise. Maybe I just to stubborn not to.

#44

I was born with a 30% hearing loss that increased to 80% by now, but if there’s any analogy here, I’m also UTTERLY COMPLETELY unable to make any sense of those Magic Eye prints where folks say “See the Zebra!” Never did see anything but the abstract colors, couldn’t detect depths, shapes or anything in those paintings no matter how I tried.

It’s like my brain is wired DO three things at once, but only HEAR one thing at a time.

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#45

1Bluejay - I remember you trying so very hard to like the OPN’s. May I suggest you try again with a different Audi? Different perspective. One who doesn’t “know” you so well. A new set of eyes and ears (the Audi) will start out without the preconceived issues you have.

I had to find a new Audi after mine retired during Covid. Changes in their office confirmed it was time for me to move on, even though there were many other experienced,qualified Audis in the practice.
I shopped around and explained nicely that I am interviewing for a new Audi that is very, very experienced with fitting Oticon , in particular the new More. I am a very hard fit and will require many appointments in the beginning. Two were a complete waste of time, even though one was nice, knowledgeable, and willing to learn to fit Oticon. Nope!

After 2 months, I finally found a Practice that fits mostly Oticon and in particular the new More. I trialed the Demo for a few weeks over the holiday, and now I am on the real trial of the aids I will keep.
I feel confident she will be able to program them to help me hear the best I am capable of hearing. My hearing loss is severe to profound. Like cvkemp, I want to hear everything!! I have been wearing Oticon for 15? years, so I am used to the sound.
Find an Audi that understands the programing software, and doesn’t get offended when you question or make suggestions. I read and try to learn as much as possible - thank you Volusiano for your explanations and fitting software diagrams.
Breaking up with your Audi is like breaking up with your hairdresser.
Bottom line - you and your brain may not be the problem - it may be your Audi, no matter how patient. One of my test questions is - Do you have the equipment (tool) and know how to shape the receiver wires? Don’t tell me to use a hairdryer - or no one ever needs them reshaped. Be prepared to say - we aren’t a good fit Bye-Bye :smile:

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#46

Try them out if you can! You might like them after some time to adjust…

Good luck.

#47

LOL Mago! If I could give you 10 thumbs up for this insight, I would. EERIE (pardon the pun), but I was just this very minute looking online for recommended audis in BOCA RATON, FL area. So if anyone here knows of one - especially one who’s knowledgable about Oticon aids - SHOUT IT OUT!

I totally GET what you’re saying about “caring may not mean competent”. Ouch. My audi actually refused to take the time to shape the receiver ear wires for me, and again, eerie aside, but I was just looking at an old post with a shot of my own EARS right on this board an hour ago, the topic being how to shape ear wires to FIT the curve of one’e ear. Cuz that was another thing that irked me. I’m forever catching fingers or combs in the wire that sticks out like a dog-napper’s LOOP from my ears.

I’ve worn both the Oticon Epoq and Alta Pro aids WAY back in the day and loved them. It was just the OPN that frustrated me to no end. So there may be HOPE! Maybe these aids were too “state-of-the-art” for my audi to fit? I’ll never know.

Now I have two key questions to ask when looking for a new audi: are they proficient in Oticon AND Phonak models? Will they be willing to work with me to get the aesthetics and performance right? And then, we’ll walk down the aisle together in WEDDED BLISS! You are right when you say our audis are like our stylists: they know our issues and goals (direct quote from a stylist I once had!).

Would I LOVE a happy solution to this. And I have to move no matter what… So it’s going to be fun with a clean slate and no preconceptions on either side! YAY! :joy:

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#48

There you go - easy breakup!
Funny, I found this new Audi office from a marketing campaign flyer that was mailed (not to my name) for a marathon week with Oticon Rep demo-ing the Mores. Of course, I received it after the promo thank you USPS. I called anyway, because they specialize in Oticon and they are located very close to me. I feel like I hit the jackpot. Fingers crossed.

Instead of asking will they be willing to work with me… ask how will you work with me…
I also said I did not want to work with a HIS - only Audi. I am paying Audi price – no second strings. I am nice, but blunt. Is that a problem?
Book minimum 1 hour appts no more than 1 week apart. I am booked for the next 4 weeks.
This Audi loves email heads up / problems - details before the appt.
I am less than 4 weeks into the process with this new Audi. I have very high hopes for a long rewarding relationship.
If You loved the EPOQs - you should love the OPN and Mores. EPOQs were my all time favorite aids. I still have them. I always thought your Audi let you return them after 9 months, because he knew he could have been the problem.
Something this new Audi did in program for trialing that may be helpful to you is Speech in Noise with directional front 180 degrees. So I can hear the person(s) sitting on both sides and across from me - like in a restaurant.
I also have regular Speech in noise. And a Comfort Program. These were just quick and dirty programing to begin with.
I also use Nal - N1. That goes back to my Epochs.

Good Luck with your relocation. Get new aids - so all your misery will be at the same time. :slight_smile:

She told me to bring my older OPNs so she could load into her software.
She updated to the new audiogram at no charge. She said wanted me to have decent backups even though I didn’t buy from her. Nice.
I feel good about my Audi choice even though we are miles away from done; I hope you have the same experience, but sadly we have to kiss a few frogs to get there.

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#49

Thanks for all the great insights and advice! Your audi seems like a rare gem! No chance she’d relocate to Boca?

I should ask my audi if my Speech in Noise is also set for 180-degree FRONT. You never know …

My other programs are Acoustic Phone (LOVE IT) and completely OFF (surprising how often I use that if housecleaning or napping). I’ve never had the app loaded on my cell phone, but maybe I’m missing something here.

I am very lucky in that my audi does not charge for ANY (no matter how many!) followup appt’s - that’s pretty rare. I know I’d need at least 4 hour-long sessions to be set after getting a new pair of aids. It’s the days of waiting in between that drag on.

Now SHOW ME THAT FROG! I may end up kissing a LOT of wild iguanas over in Boca. They’ve eaten the frogs and even the flowers in gardens over there.

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#50

My experience is not my own but of my daughter, severe hear loss, candidate for cochlear implant on the eyes of some unethical doctors. You know the drill.
From 4 to 7 years old she wore signia (siemens), directional so she could focus, according to the audiologist. From 7 and a half to this day (9 years old) she is using oticon open. Her world changed, yes it was overwhelming at first, 3 months or so. But she is still young and can adapt faster than us grown ups. Now she is able to follow the class and interact with her classmates at the same time, making extraordinary progress in a regular school. And finally not being pin out by her friends or colleagues. The interaction she is now able to have made it for me.
Yes, she gets lost in large groups. yes, she does not gets every bit of conversation all the time, but it was a huge change. She enjoys music, movies sounds effects and the directionality of it. I will try to continue acquiring that tech for her. I believe it will evolve well.

My only problem now is to get a good audiologist in Mexico -where we live-, since we acquired the devices while living in Europe… I wrote Oticon for support a while back, never got an answer.

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#51

Thank you for sharing your daughter’s success with us. I find it inspirational …

Although I agree that Oticon’s OpenSound concept is right for my needs, their lab service is no good: they take their good old time getting around to the work sent in, even if the work ticket is of a simple, straightforward nature (viz. making new moulds).

I don’t appreciate having to bother my audiologist to get him to call Oticon to find out what my ticket status is. Twice now, when he’s called Oticon to check on my job ststus, he was told that my ticket had not been touched in 7 business days. I don’t understand how that can occur without my audi getting an advisement like: “Due to a higher than normal volume of lab tickets, we may be unable to meet our normal 7-10 business day turnaround time.”

They’re a huge tech company for Pete’s sakes! When I order $7 tube of face wash from Harry’s, or a bag of herbal tea off Amazon for $16, I can track its status every step along the way. Why is it so hard to get a simple status advisement on my $6,000 hearing instruments?

As @Neville and others have said: the difference between HA makes today is razor thin. That being the case, one would think that Oticon would invest more effort into providing more responsive customer service so Oticon aficionados like me are not tempted to consider the alternatives.

Good luck to you and your daughter!

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#52

What a strange thing to say. Children with severe to profound hearing loss often do better with CIs than with hearing aids.

Honestly, it’s pretty regional.

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#53

@Neville: In your professional opinion, is there any point in complaining to Oticon about our regional lab? (Where is the lab serving Atlantic Canada situated? Do you know?)

Twice in a row now, I’ve been advised by my Audiology Clinic that my job would take 7-10 business days. That’s no problem: it is what it is. On the first occasion I waited until the 10 days had elapsed and asked my audi to please enquire on the status of the job.

He called me after talking with the lab to explain that - for some unknown reason - my receiver had been sitting on the bench all that time, with no action having been taken. They promised 3 day turnaround subsequent to my audi’s follow up, and fulfilled their promise.

On this most recent occasion, I waited 7 business days and - owing to unforeseen complications arising from my recent trip to the ER - asked my audi for a status check because I want to be able to understand the specialist I’ll be talking to through a mask about my new medical condition.

Being the great audiologist that he is, he called Oticon (on the 7th of the 7-10 business day turnaround initially quoted), and was told that “they’d try to get at it tomorrow and have it back to me by next week”.

Say WHAT, Oticon? I’ll gladly pull in my horns if my expectations are unreasonable, but what kind of business promises 7-10 business day turnaround and doesn’t even touch the job for 7 business days?

I honestly don’t understand this, but I 'll stand to be corrected if my complaint is out of bounds.

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#54

My VA clinic uses the Oticon lab in New Jersey, and I have always gotten my aids back in ten days.

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#55

I’m pretty sure that my audiologist didn’t send my receivers to that lab, Chuck. I wish he had!

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#56

Here in the Orange County/LA area, the Long Beach VA clinic stocks the receivers in-house.
New earmolds for my OPN S1 took 7 business days from Jersey.

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#57

I don’t know. We’ve never had anything like that problem with Oticon. However, right before covid they had an awful hack that slowed them down pretty hard. I might give them the benefit of the doubt one more time.

#58

@Neville: Thank you for your reply. I trust your advice, so I’ll cut them some slack one more time (… I’ve little choice, I suppose!)

[You mean a computer hack? Come to think of it, I have vague recollections of that news … back in the mists of time.]

#59

I don’t know if air cleaner or dehumidifier sounds are loaded, but I suspect not. When running either or both in my home I have a more difficult time understanding speech for sure with my Mores.

#60

@member98: The following comment is not intended to be facetious, but you’ve said in posts elsewhere in the Forum that you suffer from both hyperacusis and misaphonia.

That being the case, are you sure that an OpenSound concept hearing aid like More is the most appropriate choice for you? (I’d think that strong beam forming devices would give you more control over what you’re hearing?).

Also, if you have hyperacusis and possibly recruitment happening, are you really able to perceive what sounds More’s DNN was trained on and what not?

[Air cleaners and dehumidifiers are pretty ubiquitous: I wouldn’t think the engineers at Oticon would have excluded them from their training inventory.]

FWIW. I also run both appliances. Similarly to what @Abarsanti is reporting in his topic on switching to More1s, I’ve found that the HAs do a great job of allowing me to understand voices over the sound of the machines, running water, etc… (I don’t know what @cvkemp 's experience has been with these machines.)

Perhaps yours just need a bit more tweaking?