Low latency hearing aids suggestion

Hearing Aids
#1

Hi,
I have hearing loss above 3kHz which is mild to moderate. I’m looking for lowest possible latency RIC non-rechargable hearing aids with open dome. I have trialed Phonak Paradise P90 (too high latency) and Widex Moment 440 for which I love the PureSound program. My problem is that the Moment App (Android) is very buggy and support is awfull. Anybody has any suggestion of hearing aid with similar (0.5ms) latency as the Moments, good Android app, good support and hopefully hands-free calls?

Thanks in advance.

#2

I don’t know specifically about latency, but most people like the Oticon sound. Possible exception could be floor noise if you have great LF hearing.

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#3

Please excuse my ignorance. This is the first time I have heard of latency with respect to hearing aids. What are the effects and how would I know if it is something I should be looking for in my next hearing aid decision? What causes the latency?
Thanks

#4

I don’t think latency is an issue for the vast majority of people. Latency would be the difference in time between your ear received the sound directly versus when the amplified sound from your hearing aid.
Latency is definitely an issue with many bluetooth devices, but that’s not what OP is concerned about.
In short, don’t worry about it.

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#5

Thanks for the suggestion, I will see if I can try them.

#6

If you’re concerned about sound latency, I’m afraid there is no other brand with latency as low as Widex. Moment Puresound offers 0.5 ms latency and its Universal program operates around 2.5 ms.

Bluetooth connections always have some latency. But for cell phone calls this is non issue. While gaming on the phone, I don’t have troubles with latency while streaming audio to my aids.

#7

That is one of the selling points of Widex:

The latency is caused by more computations to improve speech understanding notably.

For me it makes the hearing aids sound much better (like for music), although it might not help speech understanding in all circumstances. But with Widex you can switch to normal high processing mode which behaves more or less like other hearing aids when you need additionnal help to understand.

Like I said, my problem with Widex is the app and the support.

I was only wondering if any other companies are trying to put out very low latency modes.

#8

Have you tried connection to iPhone? I believe connection to hearing aids is better on iOS than on Android.

#9

good idea, I have one lying around, I will try it. thanks.

#10

Latency in my new Phonak Lumity must be quite low because my hearing is excellent below 1.5 kHz and that energy is allowed to pass unprocessed via the open receivers. The crossover to higher frequencies doesn’t cause obvious aberrations when listening to music (audiophile here… well, used to be) and I can still hear an adequate stereo image though the overall fidelity is compromised of course. That crossover region is where the big problems would be expected since interference will result in a comb filter response.

Streaming to your hearing aids is via Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE). Latency (transmission delay) in Bluetooth is well-known and can be more than the processing latency in any modern hearing aid. Gamers complain about it all the time as we do also in ham radio. Basic Bluetooth latency ranges from 35-200 ms and has high jitter though there is a low-latency version as well. But hearing aids use BLE and the very lowest latency achievable for BLE that I could find is 6 ms which isn’t bad at all though the jitter can randomly increase that by a factor of 10.

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#11

I don’t have another brand comparison to offer. In my limited experience reading about HAs I’ve noticed that mild-to-moderate “ski-slope” HL often indicates open domes to help avoid an unnecessary “occlusion” effect. Plug your ears and speak to get a sampling of that. Open domes do let a broad spectrum of live sound in, so any processed sound in the receivers will mix with the live sound. That’s where latency can be perceived (10-30 ms and up is consciously noticeable, according to The Internet). Below 10 ms, it depends, and may be something you can’t put your finger on in practice.

I’m 3 weeks into my first HA fitting (Widex Moment 440 sRIC), and I perceive subtle differences between PureSound and other modes (like Universal) with respect to the sound of my own voice. I don’t know how much of that to attribute to latency. I do like the way the world sounds when wearing them, and sometimes use the Music mode when out hiking.

And no, hands-free calling without an accessory (like the Sound Assist or COM-DEX) isn’t available for Widex users. That said, I use a BT boom-mic headset (Sennheiser MB Pro 1) with my PC, and don’t mind holding my iPhone in a pre-2010 position to use as a mic for phone calls. The outgoing sound quality and voice intelligibility will be better than what a mic behind your pinna is going to pick up (more room reflections for the latter).

So, how does the world sound to you?

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#12

What do those numbers look like from other manufacturers?

#13

For both MFi and ASHA or is that a current Widex via AHSA limitation?

#14

MFi is hands free, not sure what the options are for moment sheer and android tho.

#15

It’s a Widex limitation. The protocols allow for hands-free.

#16

How is it a limitation if it offers hands-free.

#17

Widex didn’t implement hands-free.
See https://www.hearingtracker.com/bluetooth-hearing-aids for a list of supported modes from all of the major brands.

#18

I think we’re seeing parallel discussions on two different latencies Latency of hearing aids (when used as hearing aids) and Bluetooth latency. I thought op had the first in mind?

On a side note, I’m wondering whether part of the improvement in clarity I think I’m experiencing with moulds versus dome might be due to less natural sound coming in therefore less discrepancy between natural and processed sound. That’s probably a whole other subject I guess.

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#19

OP ostensibly has an open fitting, and likes the sound of the Moments over the Paradise, and wondered if latency was the reason.

The main issue was his experience with Android app bugginess and poor support. He was hoping to find a HA with similar processing latency, also with hands-free phone calling.

ASHA doesn’t do HF, and nor does the Widex in that or MFi. Phonak solves that issue, but I’d recommend prioritizing sound quality over app experience and HF.

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#20

@mikehoopes: You understood perfectly my point. In the end, I will for sure priorize sound quality over app and features but I must say that I’m very unhappy with Widex that after spending thousands of dollars, support is not getting back to me and app is very buggy (and in part necessary for the optimal hearing experience in all circumstances).

I learned over the years how bad of an idea it can be to do business with this kind of company no matter how good the product is. This is the reason why I’m still looking for alternatives.

As for latency for hearing (not for bluetooth for which i don’t really care about latency), I can hear very clearly the difference between 0.5ms and 2.5ms if those are in fact the actual numbers.

I’m also pretty sure latency must not be an issue with closed fittings.

thanks all!