Low latency hearing aids suggestion

Hearing Aids
#21

Exactly, but with delay more than 20 ms the sound is perceived undesirably. Hearing aids work below half that delay.


from: Signal Processing and Sound Quality | The Hearing Review
Acceptable Processing Delay in Digital Hearing Aids | The Hearing Review

Did you experience any better with competition? For instance, Phonak is usually appraised, but for me, their app is an example of abysmal user experience (as an iOS user), not to mention their sound.

Would it help to switch to another nearby Widex provider? I get it that this won’t help with the buggy app but you could receive better support.

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#22

So what is the actual issue your having, I’ve not had any issues myself and haven’t heard a lot from others, in most cases it turns out to be the devices being used, what phone and android version are you using? So sometimes simply updating the os and reinstalling the App gets things working how they should.

Most other premium HAs are between 5ms and 8ms, so latency as stated by others really isn’t a problem for most people, of course bluetooth latency is another kettle of fish, you haven’t posted your audiogram but it’s only noticed by people with very good low frequencies requiring open fitting (which you already know)
I’m wondering if you’d try custom made molds with just the right amount of venting to get a compromise between open and this latency you notice, again as you already know it’s only Widex at the “moment” offering this, as been mentioned there’s Oticon Real and Signia AX you could try, the AX they claim latency is reduced by 60%! Plus
a dynamic range of upto 117dB nice for music.

Good luck.

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#23

On Phonak for me app and general UI were fine, better than Widex and much less buggy. Sound felt very robotic and unnatural compared to Widex (Music listening was awful, I’m pretty much convinced this is due to the latency) but also very good for understanding human voice, probably even better than Widex.

I’m afraid that no audi can fix my overall bad customer experience relating to the app.

#24

Are you using an iPhone? As mentionned previously, I have an old iPhone that I wanted to test HA with, unfortunately it it too old to install the Widex Moment app…

As for the issues, I’m not sure were to begin.
I’ve experienced most issues described there :

I have Android 12 and if I believe the reviews, I will have a lot more problems with Android 13.

exemples of issues are:

  • single hearing aid disconnecting randomly from app.
  • all customizations made in the app completely dissapear all of a sudden
  • streaming almost always unstable
  • just general instability, inconsistency and bad user experience

I’ve tried everything like reboot aids, phone, forget and reconnect bluetooth, clear and reinstall app and unfortunately nothing works.

I do have mostly very good low frequency hearing so I’m a big reluctant closing the canals. I’ve tried with the Phonaks and that was not too convincing ; still so far from the Widex sound quality.

Thanks for the Signia AX suggestion, this was the other recommendation from my audi, I may try it next.

#25

My experience for the past 2 years is that my Widex Moment 330 HAs work very well with the Moment app installed on my iPhone SE (2020) as regards a solid, no-problems Bluetooth connection.
Widex control apps for their HAs have only recently (past 18 months?) been available on the Android platform; until then, the apps only ran on the Apple iOS platform. So Widex have lots of experience in developing apps on iOS but are relatively inexperienced wrt apps running on the Android platform. That may explain your issues with the Widex Moment app on Android.

#26

No thank goodness, I’m using Samsung note 10 and I’ve not had any of those issues, this is what I meant about what phone you have, is it on the compatibility list? Sammy works very good with android and of course the Pixel as well, so it could be as simple as trying one of those.

Wow that’s definitely a PITA, I’d try another android phone to confirm your suspicions that the App is dogs bollocks.

#27

My limited experience with the PureSound program was that it defaulted to dramatically lower gain.

You sure it’s the latency that sounds more natural to you?

#28

This is not my feeling at at all. I even feel that Universal has less gain.

I very easily hear the difference with my own voice between Pure and Universal cranked to max volume. The difference is latency.

#29

I have Samsung 10 plus. Almost the same phone as you and it is on the compatibility list. Now this is weird.

#30

Yeah but I don’t have the “Moments” I have Evoke, but still you shouldn’t be having all these issues, it’s unfortunate that your unable to find a solution from customer support, have you tried reaching out on Facebook or Twitter.
https://twitter.com/widex?t=Nbo4R52eJRFzfvNGjHHnsA&s=09

#31

Well, it might have some relation to ASHA Bluetooth protocol. Dr. Cliff has said, in one of his recent videos, that ASHA protocol is horrendous. But it’s strange that tenkan doesn’t experience these issues.

With my non-rechargeable Evokes, dropouts in iOS streaming usually is caused by nearly dead batteries and sound quality issues usually resolve when I disconnect from a poor Wi-Fi. The last resort is restarting the aids and if this doesn’t work, then un-pairing then re-pairing the aids.

You don’t need a Moment app to get iOS streaming to HAs working. It works independently and is controlled via Accessibility settings and Control Center of iPhone as long as you have iPhone 6 or newer. Older iPhones don’t support MFi streaming.

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#32

Brent Butterworth posted some measurements using a credible rig that show PureSound and Universal coming in at 0.48 ms and 1.60 ms, respectively, using a logarithmic chirp tone:
Fresh From the Bench: Widex Moment mRIC RD Hearing Aid | audioXpress

As for Signia AX: their claim is 60% reduced binaural latency which, I gather, applies to the communication between the left and right HAs. That said, you can likely get a quick demo at the audiologist, if they carry those.

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#33

This is my experience regarding music with HAs:

I know latency is arround 6ms with Phonak paradise, and I suppose not so different with Lumity. I once tried the Paradise aids and there was a very annoying artifact, most noticeable with single notes from piano or guitar. It wasn’t just the “comb filter effect”, it was something else… it sounded “ringy” and metallic or “robotic”, like with some wierd harmonics. The HAs were adding some frequencies that when combined with very near frequencies from the natural sound, created a strong tremolo effect.

Then I tried Signia AX, and observed a simillar effect, but without the added frequencies from Phonak Paradise (less “ringy”, just the tremolo). I suspect this was plain “comb filter effect”. To my ears, they sounded much better, but not perfect.

Finally, I tested Widex Moment and I percieved none of this effects at all. I also confirmed that the latency is really arround 0.5ms. The biggest problem that I am facing right now with this HAs is that they show saturation with regular sounds, even with speech, and my audiologist has not yet solved this. I read somewhere else that MPO is quite low and not adjustable in PureSound mode, so that might be it (which sucks). I don’t have significant loss in the high frequencies, so I hear this distortion very clearly.

I made a video testing the Phonak Paradise with guitar sounds, recording both through the hearing aid and directly. It’s in spanish (it’s my native language), but it might be usefull to someone. Here’s the link

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