Hearing Speech in Background Noise

[PeterH]

@1Bluejay
If I thought I could do this, I really would.

On your 2nd point, I totally agree, especially since I’ve had experience of an Audiologist who worked very hard for me.

When I got Phonak Venture, which probably had the first ‘Autosense’, I struggled in loud noise, and thought my answer was to persue Roger stuff, and other assistive devices. I couldn’t afford Roger stuff, but did get the Compilot II and TV Link. They worked very well.

In 2022 I got Phonak Marvel. The Compilot system doesn’t work, so again I persued Roger. This time, I used Ebay and bought TV Connector, Pen, On and Select. They all helped in varying degrees, but none were perfect (except TV Connector).

In 2023 I got Phonak Paradise, but more importantly, an Audiologist who spent individual time on me. He programmed the Paradise so well.

Since then, the benefits of the Roger devices have been more marginal. Some of their benefits are in directional beamforming. I understand Lumity have this built in??

These are just my views, with my expectations, and my hearing loss. It can be so different in every way for others.

Peter

[Alexandre_M]

Hi, Billgem, thanks for your answer. I shall share the experience with HCP, but I do not want to ask for things that are not achievable. Your positive experience with Pure suggests I should understand the differences between Pure and Silk. By the way, do you remember which parameter your HCP has adjusted? Thanks and regards

[Alexandre_M]

Thank you Reginald, your answer is extremely important to me because it means that there are some achievable things. I understand better what I should focus on, I do not want to burden the hearing professional with unachievable requests. Where did you get such knowledge on the different algorithms used by Signia? I have looked into the available documents and I find none.

[Reginald]

@Alexandre_M

I understand better what I should focus on, I do not want to burden the hearing professional with unachievable requests.

Bear in mind that more than 30%+ price of HAs is a bundled price of aftercare (with the exceptions of buying at Costco or if they were offered unbundled which is rare). So don’t feel sorry about pestering them, it was paid for.

I self-program my HAs, so the innards are fully visible to me.
After testing, doing initial fit with hearing professionals and finally being sorely disappointed. I’ve decided to take things into my own hands (also I’m a techie working in IT).

[Alexandre_M]

I would love to be able to self-configure, maybe to self-program my HAs. I think that you need some specific access to the software. Is this access part of the Connexx system acquisition?

[tenkan]

If your interested in doing some DIY projects on the Silk the software (Connexx) is available, you’ll also need the connexxAir programming device.
Do some research before jumping in,but it’s easy enough to do for most people, plenty of us here to help you along if needed.

[1Bluejay]

Lot of truths in your post that I can relate to! I only replaced my wonderful TV Connector to get a device I hoped would be more multi-use. I do think the TV Connector had a richer sound than streaming with the Roger ON iN, but on the other hand, I use that Roger device for speakerphone calls, which we seem to have way too many of.

I’ve followed in your footsteps a bit, starting with the Phonak Audeo B-Direct (and its lame BT cell phone streaming to ONE EAR - at least I got to pick which one), then stepped up to the Marvel, and now, since 2021 have been using the Lumity Life. Yes, the Lumities do a better job of “beamforming” in various settings, and honestly, I end up using them in loud restaurants. I put them into “Speech in Loud Noise”, crank the volume up 2 steps, and that’s better for my comprehension than the Roger sitting on a table in beam or roundtable format.

I also agree with your reality that the AUDI is a critical component here and throughout! Without their tenacity, knowledge, and true customer care, I’d be out to sea. I’m no DIYer, but then aids have become so complex it’s like being one’s own car mechanic, what with all the chips, programs and settings.

Thoughts for mulling over at the pub, I’d say! Altho, I like my IPA ice cold, and you may prefer a stout at room temp, LOL!

[1Bluejay]

@Reginald

I self-program my HAs, so the innards are fully visible to me.

ENVY. That’s what I have. O’course you say you’re a “techie” so it must be right up your alley!

[Reginald]

@1Bluejay

ENVY. That’s what I have. O’course you say you’re a “techie” so it must be right up your alley!

It just meant that I was more accustomed to experimenting and being unafraid of messing up the software. I still had to learn what is what.
Nevertheless, knowing the true capabilities of your devices gives you a strange comfort,
and no audiologist will give you more time and attention than you will give yourself.

Also, now I’m certain that pretty much no audiologist available to me could get the HAs to where I did on my own, because I tried, and it was a huge failure and waste of my time. Plus it took me more than a year of adjustments.

[1Bluejay]

@Reginald

I still had to learn what is what.

Very true! And not everyone has the energy or mental where-withall to keep trying and learning by trial and error. I wish I had a DOLLOP of that perseverance. I’m too timid to tinker with my settings cuz I SO need these aids to be working optimally all the hours they are in and ON.

[Reginald]

That doesn’t surprise me, our hearing loses differ and we have different priorities. Slopping audiograms are notoriously hard to fit properly.

[1Bluejay]

YES, you are spot-on with that! Looks like you’ve done a great job taking control of your challenge.

[valerieley]

Hello Reginald, that is a really interesting post (to me as a Signia 7 AX user as well, Pure Charge & Go, though). I am a bit frustrated after almost a year of trying to get the settings right for noisy environments and tempted to try self-programming, but have no tech background whatsoever. I feel that the Universal program is best for most situations and can’t get much out of the other programs (noise, reverberant rooms, outdoors…). The only thing that really helps is Mask Mode in the Universal program. I think I’ll give the audiologist another chance and then take the plunge! It’s really good to read of someone who achieved great results setting up his own programs. It gives me a little hope. Thank you!

[Reginald]

7AX Pure Charge & Go and Stylettos have identical innards and capabilities. Just different packaging.

Mask mode raises treble/sharpness significantly, which means that you’re under amplified in that regard.
I would force them to switch you from the default AXFit fitting formula to DSLv5 .
AXFit uses compression obscenely and I found that it’s really problematic in noisy situations and with lowered voices. DSLv5 is very conservative when it comes to compression.
You may encounter some resistance from them, because the less experienced fitters/audis are afraid of changing manufacturer’s defaults.

You have to remember that manufacturers defaults are made to fit most people and to decrease the rejection possibility (and to increase sales). They’re bad for fine tuned specific cases. And they seem to be also bad for high frequency losses, because the high frequency band is the most jarring and hardest to get accustomed to, so they underamplify you.

Some programs are obsolete at 7AX levels, like “reverberant rooms”. Because they have AI based ‘echo cancel’ feature enabled that is applied to all modes/programs.

Did you have your firmware updated recently? Or could you check in the app which version you’re on? Because they introduced some significant improvements in the last months.

(you should read this too Hearing Speech in Background Noise - #76 by Reginald )

[DaveL]

@Reginald

I’m very frustrated with my own performance with hearing aids.
I’ve worn them for almost 25 years.
Almost two years ago I got my current hearing aids; they didn’t work for me until I replaced my audiologist with a skilled hearing aid practitioner , at my audiologists request. I have Phonak Audeo Paradise P90R’s and with his setup they just plain didn’t work.

I truly appreciate your skill and posts here. I confirm that modified programs using the mask Phonak program did help me. My audiologist that quit scrubbed my hearing aids, and the modified programs that he had modified at my request. They are gone.

If I remember right, those programs had increased mid and high frequencies and reduced bass.

I have Phonak Audeo Paradise P90R’s. I shall discuss the fitting algorithm used and intend to have my hearing tested soon.

Please keep the comments coming. I’m excited about learning more from them.

Sincerely
DaveL

[Reginald]

I’m going to quote something

DSLv5.0 stands for “Desired Sensation Level” and is a fitting formula which aims at calculating the best possible loudness balancing. Especially with high-frequency hearing losses, this leads to a significant increase of the not clearly audible frequencies. This may not be a good choice for people who have lived with a hearing loss for a while and use a hearing device for the first time, they can be overwhelmed with the sensory overload and this again may lead to discomfort. However, for patients who have been wearing a hearing device for a while and who are used to higher gain values, DSLv5 can be the best choice. Moreover, this formula also takes the measured levels of discomfort into account and the MPO of the hearing device is adjusted accordingly.

[DaveL]

@Reginald

Thanks! I’m learning something new.

Much appreciated.

DaveL

[tenkan]

So yeah DSLv5.0 is very rarely used, you can get similar results by programming other formula, it’s been used for children in the beginning(they tolerate a lot more loudness overall than us for some reason) and there’s also an adult option, actually severe/profound losses like this formula because it gives them the “analogue” sounding/feel that some of them prefer, this is of course because of less compression, you definitely notice the difference straight away when changing between the formulas, personally I couldn’t get used to it myself, the tv and in the car was hard to take regardless of the amount of adjustments I did, I settled on NAL- NL2 which is similar to DSLv5.0 in a way, but of course with more compression especially in the lower frequencys for me.

[Reginald]

It’s actually possible to have one program in DSLv5 and others with different fitting formulas, which I did for testing purposes.
It takes some manual effort though, which very few audis could muster, I’m quite certain.

[Um_bongo]

Really? It’s just tuning and transferring the values.