Getting Fitted for Starkey Evolv AI 2400 CIC Tomorrow. What Should I Know?

Hi @emile.heilbron, good to hear from you and my apologies for not responding sooner - work has been crazy busy.

Thanks for posting your experience - very helpful. My Phonak’s were ordered without the volume wheel but the button on each is programmed for volume up and down (2db increments I think). With the Starkey’s I was very surprised at how big they are - bigger then the P-312 it seems. They are very noticeable in my ears, and of course because they stick out they are picking up a massive amount of wind noise, even though the audi put the wind setting at the maximum. With the Phonak I didn’t get any wind noise whatsoever because the were slightly further in.

The charging case for the Starkey’s is very large and not the sort of thing you can put in your pocket. The battery does last a full day easily (I don’t do a lot of streaming yet), and I switch them off and put them in the HA dryer/UV thing every 2nd night. I know that one day I will forget to remove them from the dryer early enough to charge them to ensure I have enough battery for the day.

I am finding the Starkey’s a little too sharp - to me the Phonak’s sounded more natural. With both models I am still having a hard time with voices. A couple of weeks ago I was at a very noisy restaurant and couldn’t hear a word from someone 3 ft away, but I could hear a glass clink 100 ft away at the back of the restaurant. It was frustrating and overwhelming, but I should have spent more time playing with the MyPhonak app as you can adjust a lot of variables. I’m sure if I had the patience that night I could have found a setting that probably would have worked for me.

You mentioned you like the ability to change the balance of volume vs environment while streaming with the Phonak’s. I too like this; however the Starkey’s don’t have this at all. The EdgeAI feature on the Starkey’s is good, but I’m fairly certain the Phonak’s have very similar functionality but do it automatically rather than having to tap my ear. I had thought my audi forgot to program it into my Starkey’s but after playing with the app I found it is user configurable.

I agree re the BT on the Phonak - it is great being able to connect to multiple devices (including laptops) and have them switch automatically, and it definitely seems to be more reliable than the MFi Starkey BT. I thought with the MFi functionality on the Starkey’s that this would give me more options and control, but it didn’t and to be honest I wasn’t really impressed with it - I couldn’t figure out how to answer/end a call on the Starkey’s, whereas with the Phonak’s I just tapped the button on the HA. It seems the only way to answer a call on the Starkey’s is on the phone, which will then route it to the HAs. People commented that they could hear me better on the Phonaks but I sounded more distant with Starkey’s when talking on the phone. And it also appears the only way to be able to connect to 2 devices is to have both phones on the same iCloud account (not an option for me as I don’t want my work phone signed into my personal iCloud). I noticed the Starkey’s seemed to lose connection a lot according to the app - often I’d open the app and the left or right HA would show as not connected. I’d have to turn them both off then on again and then it would show correctly. I like the ability in the Starkey app to see the battery level - I wish Phonak would also display battery levels in their app as well.

The heath and wellness things on the Thrive app are not a big deal for me - I have that functionality on my watch which I wear most of the time so I can check my heart rate, number of steps, fall detection, etc.

From what I’d read and the reviews I’d watched I thought the Starkey’s would be way better than the P-312, but they aren’t. I think they are very similar and both have their pros and cons (e.g. the Starkey self test feature, the Phonak balance vs environment, rechargeable vs disposable, BT classic vs BT LE, etc), but for me - just like you - I think I do prefer the Phonaks, and for the exact same reasons you listed in your conclusion.

I have another appointment next Tuesday where I need to make my final decision. I’m about 90% certain I will go with the Phonaks for the same reasons you listed. Under the Pay As You Go option with my audi, I will get a free upgrade to the same technology level on the Phonaks every 3 years, which is a big plus (maybe by then Phonak will have made them smaller and packed in a bunch more features); and it also means I don’t have to outlay any money upfront.

I too like that Starkey tells you in words “Normal”, or “Crowd”, or battery low, etc. I’m sure I’ll get used to the beeps with Phonak and given a little time I’ll know exactly what they are.

As mentioned I my previous reply, I also think the Phonaks are better in phone calls - again, no hard evidence except for feedback from callers I’ve been speaking to.

@richard.silver
Thanks for you extensive reply. I think we more or less totally agree!

How to take the phone call on the Starkey I do not remember anymore… On the Phonak Virto P90 it is easy indeed press the button and on the Phonak Audeo P90 BTE just tap. I still remember saying “accept call” but do not remember anymore which brand that was.

If you do not have the extra volume wheel on your Phonak you will have less options without taking the phone out of your pocket… But I can imagine that changing the program in the Phonaks is automatically doing so well that you could do without and have instead the buttons for the volume control. (And maybe even because of that even have smaller aids). Also because of not loosing connection can keep your phone in your pocket more then with the signal loosing Starkeys.
Having volume control is very important to me because of abrupt environment changes.

I hate taking the cell phone out of my pocket for my HA’s. Unlock, search and open the app, look for things you want to do or change is playing around and should be avoided as much as possible. Though it is very useful if you can once in a while change or customize settings yourself.

Battery level not visible in Phonak app seems also less important to me as you can change the 312 battery easily if you always take a spare with you. With Starkey you need to carry the loader because you have to know the status in advance in case you leave your house. As I remember well the time left after low battery warning lasts longer in Phonaks.

About the voices in loud environments. This is a struggle in every HA it seems. But for that case the Phonak has a good solution by there Roger microphones (Select and Pen etc.), which is my next step to try out. But as I read it does a good job and one is feeling like a spy as it functions more then well.

Good luck with your final decision.
Emile

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Thanks @emile.heilbron - will provide an update next week.

Hey @emile.heilbron,

I hope you are well.

A couple of observations from me after having the Phonak’s for 3 or so weeks…

I’ve been walking the dog in the park recently and noticed the birds chirping (great to hear, BTW!). With the Starkey’s I could hear them loudly but could not tell at all from what direction the chirping was coming from and I couldn’t tell whether it was close by or far away; however with the Phonak’s can easily tell the direction and roughly the distance. I can tell if the bird is on my left or right side, or in front or behind. Couldn’t do that with the Starkey’s.

Connectivity is so much better with the Phonak’s and it’s great having them switch automatically between my work phone and personal phone. I did have an issue the other day when I was out walking where the devices constantly kept losing connectivity (I’d get an ascending and descending musical tone in one or both ears). I shut down the app and tried again. No luck. Turned off BT on phone. No luck. Opened and closed the door on each HA, again no luck. This went on for about 45 mins. Then as suddenly as it started, it stopped and they connected and stayed connected. The only thing I can think of is that the day before I had upgraded from iOS 16.1 to 16.1.1. Not sure if that was coincidental or whether it was a factor. It seems to be stable now.

Another thing I have noticed is that a few times a day (maybe 5 or 6) the sound goes really dull/flat - almost as if the HAs are turned off. It comes back again after about 30 seconds. Not sure what’s causing this as I have checked the wax guards, cleaned the vents, etc to make sure everything is nice and clean. I’m wondering if it could be some sort of auto adjustment feature making adjustments on the fly and then implementing them. Would be interested to know if you or anyone else noticed this with these devices? I have another adjustment session next week so will ask the audi and see what he says.

I’m still struggling with voices. I came across another thread here where someone had downloaded a tone generator and identified some dead spots in his hearing, while wearing his aids. I did the same thing and set up a tone sweep from around 100Hz to 9500Hz and (if I did it right) I noticed a few dead spots in each ear where I could not hear the tones at all: Left ear - 2900-3600Hz, 4800-6300Hz, 6700-8300Hz, and 8500Hz up. In the right ear: 5100-6100Hz, 6600-7600Hz, 8300Hz up.

The poster got his audi to move the Speech Recovery feature down and a lot of his lost frequencies were improved. I don’t know much about this feature or how it works, but I’ll talk to my audi next week and see if moving it will help me recover some of these frequencies. Any input or insights from anyone else reading my thread would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Richard

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Hi @richard.silver
Great to hear your experiences!

I agree on your hearing directional and distance, it works for me also better than with the Starkey Evolv 2400.

BT I agree gives seldomly also in my case some weard things. I have Android so cannot exactly compare. My impression was that I had to many connected devices all over the place and they did send messages so the HA’s get confused in connecting. Then the programm is changing it seems because of the sound… But I now have the BT’s off in devices I do not use at the same moment. And I must say everything is going well last time.

Sorry to hear that you still have some problems in voice recognition. It could have to do with the dead spots you are talking about. I hope and am almost sure the audi can taggle this for you. And I saw his post which was interesting.

One thing I must repeat I am very content with is the volume buttons I asked for on my Phonak Virto P90. I now discovered that if you are streaming you can balance the environmental sound with the streamed one. So if I would like to hear only music I can do that or make more mix between environment and music. And with the push buttons I can change at once if I like to.

Please keep us informed about your futher findings…
Have a nice day, Emile

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Just my $0.02 on the CIC scenario. I am trialing the Oticon Own1 CIC and it has some good features, the Bluetooth phone streaming is great. The form factor is good (I have the 312 battery version which is my preference), but as a hearing aid, so far it is sub-par. After my first fit, people at my workplace begged me to go back to my old hearing aids. After my second fitting they are better, but far from OK. I used Starkey for many years and am considering the Evolve AI 2400 CIC, even though the antenna is apparently massive. I like the noise reduction on Starkey much better than these Oticon. In fact the Oticon’s sound very old-tech and the features are gimmicky.

PS. The Starkey’s now come with a pre-curved antenna. Not sure what effect that has on connectivity, if any.

Really? I wasn’t aware of that - they must have actually listened to customer feedback and found most people don’t like to look like teletubbies with antennas sticking out of their ears :slight_smile: I’d imagine there may be very little to zero effect on the connectivity. I just checked the Starkey website and they now have pictures showing the pre-curved antennas. This will make a massive difference to people!

I visited the audi and showed her the table I had made up listing the dead spots in each ear and explained how I discovered them (showed her the iOS app I downloaded) as well as the speech issues. I mentioned the Speech Recovery function and she said this is turned off by default, but she was happy to turn it on and see what difference it made. She did so and turned it to “strong” (I think that was the terminology on the setting).

It’s only been a few days but it does seem to have made a bit of a difference - not a huge amount though from what I can tell. I’ll keep at it and may adjust some of the settings within the app and see what happens.

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Can you please recap what your test involved (the iOS app, etc)? This is a long post and I could not find it.

Sure @grantb5

I came across a post where someone had said he had difficulty with speech (as we all do). His post was quite lengthy with the various (valuable) inputs from others and he mentioned he had downloaded a frequency generator from the app store and then set it to generate tones thru various ranges and then recorded where the dead spots were (I.e. where he couldn’t hear the tones) while wearing his HAs. I think this function is called a frequency sweep. Unfortunately he didn’t go into detail about exactly how he did it.

I thought I’d try the same thing (nothing to lose, right?!) and downloaded an iOS app called Function Generator. From memory it was about NZD$6 to enable the full functionality - a lot of the free ones will give very limited functions. This app allows you to select the left or right channel only, or both channels, and you can also set a start and end frequency which goes up in 20Hz increments.

I messed around with it and I really was flying blind, but I set it to start at 250Hz all the way thru to 9500Hz. I tried the left ear first and it went thru the various frequencies and I could hear the tones. At around 2900Hz the tone literally disappeared and I couldn’t hear it until it reached 3600Hz. Then it again disappeared at 4800Hz. I took a note of where the tones were not audible in each ear and did the test multiple times to make sure I hadn’t screwed it up. The results were almost identical each time so I figured I was doing something right. To be honest I really had no idea WTH I was doing but after running it several times and the tests being the same I figured I must be on the right track.

Take a note of where the tones are not audible and where it comes back. You may have a few dead spots where the tones are not audible at all (like I do).

Good luck and ask if you need help - as I said I was flying blind but happy to share or help as I’m sure others here will be.

Cheers.

Just for my understanding:

Actually what would be the difference between the audiogramm and this app test. I mean in both cases you are looking at hearable tone frequencies and the deficits where you hear less or even nothing.

Is it ment as a controll after the hearing aids are programmed?
But is this not already controlled by programming the aids and maybe have an extra in ear test afterwards?

Another thing is how did you use the app, did you listen to the phone speakers or did you listen to the BT streaming of your HA’s. And so after the HA’s programming for your hearing tests you have a look where there are still uncontrolled/ not corrected frequencies?

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So I’m confused. Why are there (large) antennas if they don’t have Bluetooth? Everything I can find on the Starkey site says CIC and IIC are only available in non-wireless (NW). Is this for their own proprietary 2.4GHz stuff? If that’s the case then the 900MHz solution is just as good, if not better.

The non wireless do not communicate to each other nor do they communicate with other devices for streaming.

They have a new one now, the CIC without the NW designation. I wonder if this just refers to the addition of ear-to-ear (NFMI - near field magnetic induction) or the full Bluetooth suite. It might be that they just added NFMI so that if you press the button, both sides adjust. That would hurt my feelings if that’s all it does.

You can see the CIC and CIC-NW on this page:

Page 24:

Looks like a new version of there CIC’s indeed.
Unfortunately it seems they give not enough information to see if it is comparable with the functionality of the bigger ones. What it says is that there is at least bi- aural communication now between left and right side as far as I understand. But they are getting better anyhow.

I decided to go for the Phonak’s Virto P90 so will not have the chance to try these out anymore. But interesting it is…

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Hi, Need some advise on Starkey Evolve,
The audiogram show a !K 85db loss, on hte starkey fitting app, the is outside the envolope even for the 60 power RIC receiver. So, can the fitting work

It can and possibly will, though you’d do better with a custom shell, especially in terms of feedback and power retention.

The other issue you might have - practically, I have about 25% of people who reject the Starkey, purely on the length of the receiver. If you’ve got narrow or twisty ears then there’s a risk of soreness as you try to get it around the bend - moreso than other makes.

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