Dr. Cliff and Audigy

Hearing Aids
#1

I recently listened to a Dr. Cliff video about his new relationship with Audigy. Video should be easy to find. Here’s a news release from Audigy: Audigy Announces Partnership with Doctor Cliff | Hearing Health & Technology Matters

Not sure what to think. Audigy is an interesting choice as although they are a GN company (think Resound), they carry most major brands of hearing aids under the Audigy brand. I don’t believe he will be carrying Audigy hearing aids. I really know very little about them, I would guess that they are locked.
He claims the relationship is so he can broaden his reach to improve hearing care quality. Count me as skeptical.

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#2

So he loses his objectivity due to his financial interests with Audigy/GN. Sad.

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#3

Is that supposed to be a sarcasm?
Dr. Cliff, Objective? lol!
The only thing he’s objective about is $$$ from the mfgs, right?

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#4

@flashb1024 : I’m glad I’m not the only one wirh these sentiments, :zap: Flash :zap:

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#5

I’ve seen a few of his videos and wasn’t impressed. I couldn’t care less about him or his schtick.

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#6

You guys are a very tough crowd. I like Dr. Cliff and I think he has done quite a bit to help spread awareness, best practices and knowledge to hearing impaired people.

Jordan

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#7

I also like Dr Cliff @JordanK … I am aware of the old adage; People help people, to help themselves… But, some of his videos are informative, and they give the slightly bemused, and ill informed potential new hearing aid users, some insights into the confusing world of hearing aids, and lets face it, mild/moderate/severe hearing loss can be very isolating, unfortunately hearing aid manufacturers tend to be a wee bit liberal with the truth in their quest to sell more of their wares, some of their advertising might be construed as downright dishonest, or at best, they might be accused of embellishing the truth? It takes many years to come to terms with SSNHL, and most of us where oblivious to what hearing loss entails, prior to our own personal loss, we had no idea, I know, I was blissfully ignorant … And its a steep learning curve, and most experienced hearing aid users all have degrees in hindsight, we have been around the block a few times :upside_down_face: IMO, Dr Cliff is performing a service with his videos, perhaps its fairly lucrative, from his financial prospective, but his information is helpful for newbies, and I can only say, I wish, I had similar access to information on the outset of my personal hearing loss journey, some 30 odd years hence… As always, YMMV. Cheers Kev :wink:

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#8

I will admit I have only seen one or two of his videos. I am no expert but know many here respect his work.

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#9

Yeah @prodigyplace, we forget the pre-internet days, when information was difficult to come bye, in my case, I couldn’t hear anyone to get that info, I thought like most folks, get a hearing aid, and the problem is solved, in all truth, my problems had just begun! As we all know, hearing aids only assist us to hear better, there is no actual cure for hearing loss, we are all permanently impaired, hearing aids are more or less, a trade off, but you could never actually say they cure the hearing loss problem, and yes, without them, we would be in dire straits, but with them, they throw up all kinds of frustration, and we will always be grieving for our hearing yesteryear… We are never going to hear in very loud background noise with hearing aids, the SNR is not physically capable of clarifying the speech signal, and yes with a remote mic, things will improve 10 fold, but they will never be a perfect solution, occasionally you will misinterpret something, and Sod’s Law comes into force when you misinterpret “That” key word! Digital hearing aids advance at breakneck speed, but at present, solving the fundamental problem of speech in noise is at present a bridge too far, perhaps they will someday, but probably not in our lifetime? Someone once wrote these immortal words; “The impossible we do today, miracles take slightly longer”… :upside_down_face: Perhaps we should all reign in our expectations of what hearing aids are actually capable off, they cannot restore our hearing loss, they are assistive listening devices, assistive being the operative word. At present, speech in noise is all but a pipe dream… Cheers Kev :wink:

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#10

The evening I first got the More 1 I tested them out in a crowded living room gathering. I was surprised that I was actually able to carry on a conversation with a lady in that noisy environment. There was one other woman I could not understand though.

It was Dr. Cliff’s video were. He stated Word Recognition Score indicates the best he could expect from hearing aids. My subsequent test proved the professional has a huge (30%) impact on that score. That made me move from Costco to this major University practice.

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#11

Yes, like any test, it needs to be done correctly and individuals can have a huge impact. Another person at Costco may have gotten it right and another person at the University could have erred.

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#12

I am comparing at least 3 Costco tests by different people. One Costco person noted that Duke tested at a higher sound level.

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#13

There is no perfect solution @prodigyplace, hearing loss is much akin to a fingerprint, and as such, totally unique to each individual, both in your individual pure tone audiogram, and your personal likes and dislikes of the actual sounds we hear… What sounds good to me, “Will”possibly sound terrible to you? And yes, they are improving on speech in noise, but each improvement is incremental, there is no quantum leap as yet, perhaps at some point they will make that giant leap forward, until that happens, I reiterate, hearing aids are at present a trade off, we have to except the the good, and hopefully try and tolerate their bad points, perhaps a happy medium… Bluetooth cell phone calls was for me a giant leap, not perfect, but a major step in the correct direction! Cheers Kev :wink:

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#14

I think that Cliff honestly and passionately believes in quality care and patient education. I think he’s also running a business, and I think that the online influencer business can be very weird, but also that he has really done some valuable work. In our personal interactions, I have found Cliff to be a thoughtful, reasonable and consistent person.

I do find his hearing healthcare provider network strange. The bar for entry seems pretty low and there is no continuing oversight. So I understand how providers feel like he’s just asking for a marketting fee and nothing more. But more than that. . . in Ontario, we are self-regulated by our professional college, whose board of directors we elect. The college sets out preferred practice guidelines and we submit annual self-audits and are subject to random external audits/practice reviews to demonstrate that we are meeting them. This seems like what Cliff would want and it blows my mind a bit that a similar sort of practice oversight doesn’t seem to exist in America? I think that he is right to want it, but I’m not sure that him trying to implement it single-handedly was ever practical. Maybe getting together with Audigy will be more effective, but again I’m not sure that they are the correct body to do it.

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#15

In the US they are licensed and lightly regulated by state. Here in Virginia, there is a mandatory trial period costing no more than 5% if the cost of the aids. In North Carolina, there is no mandatory trial period. Duke has a 60 day refund period but dies not refund molds or accessories. They charge a $400 fee for their services during that time. Their services are generally unbundled except for the first 60 days.

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#16

Yeah, audiology in the United States is like the Wild West. In the 9 or so providers I’ve dealt with I’ve seen great variation in practice. No bone conduction testing; not using voice recorded WRS, lack of REM are some of the few things I’ve seen. Costco is far from perfect, but they are the only place I’ve encountered that is clearly trying to implement quality control measures. Health care in general in the States seems to face pressures to face less and less time with the patient.

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#17

But a trial period is not a practice guideline. Practice guidelines outline things like confidentiality, consent, patient-centred care, device prescription, verification, validation, continuing education, etc. I think American guidelines are released by the academy of audiology, I just don’t know what oversight there is to ensure that clinicians are actually following them. The fact that Cliff is trying to “vet” some sort of “network” leads me to think that there is no other oversight.

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#18

I have it on reasonable authority that all of the quality control measures that are being implemented in Costco America were developed by Costco Canada, in Ontario where all Costcos are staffed by audiologists who are themselves regulated by our college (though, given recent staffing shortages I’m not sure this is still the case).

I’ve also been told recently that North American pediatric fitting guidelines are largely being driven by the NCA in Ontario, which shocked me a bit. I don’t know why I have this bias that Canada is like the younger sibling and America should be ahead of us in everything.

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#19

Interesting! In US Medicine there is a fair emphasis on quality measures, but the stronger pressures seem to be on time efficiency and making the customer “happy” so whatever quality measures are being targeted get all the attention and a lot gets ignored

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#20

When you shell out thousands of dollars every few years to put two little things into your ears that don’t do all the things manufacturers claim they will do, then something is rotten in Denmark.

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