Do I need hearing aids?

Hearing Loss
45

All opinions are interesting. There are many aspects to the world of hearing impairment and its improvement with hearing aids.

Without a doubt, I think that in most cases, with prosthetics, hearing is greatly improved.

It is incredible what prosthetics improve day by day. In my case, I started with a small bilateral hearing loss but it made it difficult for me to understand the combersations and a typical example that you have a deficiency is that you turn up the volume of the television more.

I started with the OTICON DELTA 6,000 and I was delighted with them, they are very resistant, even being from the year 2006 and after using them in 2014 for a year, they still work. They are digital with four channels and without regulation buttons. But I will continue to love them all my life.

Then I switched to the OTICON ACTO and ACTO Pro because my hearing got worse and I needed more power. I improved in benefits and regulation. More comfortable. Very happy.

They gave me some DANAVOX from a dead man, but I could not find a prosthetist that would adapt them. So I keep them in the drawer until I find someone competent.

In my case, it is easier for me to find professionals who can adapt OTICON brand hearing aids, for that reason I am not interested in changing brands.

I always have some OTICON GET (normal) or GET P (power) in reserve. I know they are obsolete with four channels but the GET P (power) model suits my loss well, but the GET (normal) no longer has enough power.

I am afraid that in time I will have to buy a SP (Super Power) model.

Due to breakdowns, I sometimes use different models in each ear, but always from the OTICON brand and models with independent volume control buttons.

The most modern and that give me the best results are the OTICON OPN3, with an 85db output speaker. They are my favorites for all environments.

At home or for a walk, I don’t mind wearing a more obsolete model, like a Get P or an Ino P.

I am lucky that just one visit to the audiologist is enough for me. The custom molds cost me $ 60 for each ear with audiometry and regulation of the prostheses.

I have had offers from Great Britain for $ 2,000 each OTICON OPN prosthesis, I can’t remember if they were OPN1, OPN2 or OPN3 models. But any of them are high end.

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46

Hi Ellis, while off topic (hope no one minds) be aware that Blu-ray SACD playback is not lossless DSD. Your player only reads the top layer which is CD quality. Most SACDs are made that way for backwards compatibility. The layer under that is the SACD encoded audio. So you’re really just listening to the standard CD quality of the album.

I agree as my hearing does fluctuate depending on how tired I am. I’m not sure if that’s because of my ear and auditory nerve as my brain being too tired to bother sorting out whatever I’m hearing unless it sounds like an emergency.

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IMHO, the whole hearing aid industry (including its vendors the audiologists) is a bit of a racket, where the charged prices greatly exceed the costs, and a protected market where there is little competition (most hearing aid manufacturers sell their wares only through audiologists). Despite the bill that passed years ago allowing for hearing aids to be sold over the counter, very few viable models have emerged. The fact that Costco charges so much less for hearing aids (about 1/3 of the typical price) is due to the fact that they’re able to negotiate much lower prices (and they have lower costs themselves).

What audiologists typically want to do is sell you a package (which you mention) that includes an unlimited number of visits, adjustments, cleanings and (formerly), batteries. But most people don’t need this. If you’re not elderly and/or have some physical disability, you can replace domes and earwax guards yourself. My audiologist wanted to charge $1,700 on top of the $4,500 hearing aid price for this kind of unlimited service, which is a boon to audiologists (to their credit, they were willing to sell me just the hearing aids). It’s kind of like purchasing an extended warranty on a car — almost pure profit for the seller. So at the very minimum, you want to ask what the “unbundled” price is, and pay for individual visits, unless you anticipate a constant need for individual consultations. And besides, 4 years is too long a period for service, since you want to upgrade your hearing aids every 3 years or so.

Now on to the need for hearing aids. What my ENT told me is that you actually want to start wearing hearing aids before they become really necessary, because otherwise parts of your auditory cortex will begin to atrophy without proper stimulation from the ear, and then wearing hearing aids will help even less. And audiologists are unanimous in saying that hearing aids won’t restore your hearing to what it was before the loss. But you want to give hearing aids the best chance of improving your hearing.

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I’m not going to read through all 43 comments, but do check on any available insurance coverage.

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Happymach, don’t blame the industry for the lack of OTC hearing aids. Blame the FDA, they were supposed to have the standards for manufacturing finished by now but have not done that. It may be next year before the FDA finally gets it done. Any “OTC” hearing aid being sold now is not really a hearing aid since OTC does not really exist now. There are numerous PSAPs for sale but what you get is a crap shoot, there is a lot of junk out there.

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50

I have been dealing with a spouse with inherited hearing loss for well over 50 years, and his father wore aids, and my own loss and aids for about 15 years.
My first advice is get aids NOW, do not wait.
You hear with your BRAIN, the ear merely collects sound. The longer the BRAIN is without a particular sound the more annoying it will be to hear it again and the harder to adjust TO hearing it. That is why so many people buy aids when they have become VERY hard of hearing and end up with them “in the drawer” rather than in their ears!!!
BUT, do not expect hearing aids to FIX your hearing as eyeglasses FIX your vision!! The more you wear them, the better you will adjust, but they will never give you back normal hearing. They will always amplify background sounds that you do NOT want to hear!!
My father in law had waited so long (and remember I am talking 1950-60 technology) that even 40 years LATER, he took his aids OFF the minute he walked into the house!! He was so frustrated from using them all day at work, he could not deal with them at home.
My husband on the other hand, got aids at the FIRST sign that his hearing was going, and was NEVER without them when he was awake! And I have followed his example.
Second: I would strongly recommend you watch the Dr. Cliff videos.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpikvbsbLd6tMcuN7AEJ-1A
These will help you understand what to expect for “best practices” from your audiologist.
Third: I would never purchase aids from anyone who would not give at least a 30 and preferably a 60 day trial period! That is one of the huge factors in favor of Costco if you have one that is convenient - - they give you a 180 day trial period!!
Fourth: since you live in NYC, you should have access to many hearing aid providers so I would definitely go to more than one for an opinion/pricing before purchasing.
Wishing you the best of luck with your decision!!

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51

Hi Eskie, not very far off-topic! I think anyone looking to hearing aids for the first time, as in this thread, will be glad to discover lines of enquiry about how well their musical needs will be met.

And, I am merely guessing, there might be compatibility issues around various music streams and how they link into Bluetooth if we prefer delivery straight-to-ear. Me? Loudspeakers every time!

Thankyou for explaining SACD and Blu-ray. You set me Googling! It tells me the BBC evolved a very high-quality FLAC-specification streaming option, trialled live at the 2017 Prom Concerts, but it seems to be in the shadows now. Budgets and all that.

I note that happymach and Ismith here both say it’s wise to start wearing early, to keep parts of the auditory cortex healthy.

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I went through my audiophile stage way back. Then added home theater but always set up with solid L&R speakers for good music alone. I really liked my B&W speakers (even set up my home theater using them and only the only home theater specific speaker from them was the center channel). Over time as I turned more and more to music I ended up with pair of Rega speakers. Paired them with an MK sealed sub with some ridiculous built in amp of 700W. It worked out extremely well as the MK’s were hands down the most musical sub I had heard, not one one note boom you get from most. I started listening to more vinyl and was glad I had kept my original “pre CD” collection. I also loved my headphones and developed a real taste for Senneheiser.

After getting ill a few years ago and ending up in rehab for 6 months, I couldn’t keep my apartment. NY isn’t all that friendly with real estate expenses. I wasn’t ready to head straight to looking for a new place when I was ready to leave, so I went with an assisted living facility. It worked out as they had all the medical staff and physical therapists onsite, but when it was clear returning to full time work wasn’t in the picture I had to go on disability and settle in here for now.

Most of my things are in storage but my daughter has my stereo setup. I really can’t set anything like that here, so I’m a headphone user now. They happen to sound wonderful so no complaints on that. The difference of a higher end headphone to a HA is, for me, huge. It’s why I’m happy to stream for background music but for a good listening session I have to take them out and go back to phones. Fortunately I still have sufficient hearing to enjoy them, with a little tweaking of the equalizer.

I still do some work from here, and for videoconferencing I also rely on my BT headset so I have a good mic and no issues of others hearing me. It makes for taking my HAs in and out a few time a day, but for now that’s just how I have to function.

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That’s quite a tough time you went through, Eskie. I trust that things will resolve for you. Music is a great solace and stimulant, I think. That’s one reason I get so exercised by the patchy attention given to it by the HA industry, and audiologist training.
Headphones are wonderful indeed. I use big Sennheisers for checking my recorded work (mostly voice) and find the combination of those plus one half-dislodged hearing aid switched to telecoil is about optimum for hearing full range.
However, organ is a different matter! Three subs, chunky ‘man shed’ jobs, give good results along with Yamaha front speakers.
Returning to topic… almost, folks!.. currently experimenting with sub speaker fitted under a chairseat: it adds that body-shaking you only get with a real 64 foot pipe and I discover that the cues from that direction increase my ability to perceive those lows by ear. Even perfect ears are very insensitive down at 16Hz of course. Shall try the seat with headphones next. Would love to hear from others here how they meet the challenges of music, with or without assistive devices.

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54

Ah, a good sub that can go down into infrasonic and be heard with your body and not your ears. I assume you live in a house rather than apartment. I was lucky that my next store neighbor was a serious audiophile, with big Martin Logan electrostatic speakers and a 5K turntable I watched him get installed. Must have weighed 40-50 pounds and had a separate suction thing to hold the vinyl tightly to the turntable. My other neighbors never complained but I was also fair in never using it turned up except for certain situations and never after 9-10 pm.

And yes, organ music is a serious challenge, but it sound like you’ve got that solved. One of the complaints about CD audio was always the brick walls set on either side of their 20-20,000 kHz.

I was happy going back to vinyl for some of those reasons and only if it was a high quality recording and engineering. Yes, even with a good cartridge and a quality arm with all the geometry arrangements as best as possible, there is still distortion. But while not as “accurate” as a well engineered CD, the type of distortion is smooth and more pleasing to the ear. Sometimes perfect reproduction of the master tape just doesn’t sound as full and relaxing as well pressed vinyl can be. It’s like using tubes, yes way more distortion than quality a well electronic pre amp/amp, but again, the distortion which results is just smoother and adds to a more relaxed listening session (no, I never used tube components, but got to listen to quite a few and really was impressed).

It’s interesting you can leave one loosely fit HA under the phones and get a solid experience. I may well play with that this evening. It would be nice to have one kinda in place when I take the phones off instead of dealing with putting both back in (not hard to do but I can be lazy about some things).

As things slowly reopen in NY, I’m looking forward to see how my aids do in a live music setting. It’ll be wonderful if I can get satisfaction from that. Hopefully it won’t be viewed as noise and suppressed, but then it will be fine to make some adjustments by app to see if I can maximize performance.

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Hello eskie227. That’s all very interesting. I had better try to be brief, as people may find our shared enthusiasm for hi-fi a bit peripheral to the thread topic! A friend who used to cut vinyls for a day job said he, too, preferred the result to the master tape - though this was mostly pop. From the same era, I miss my sweet all-tube amplifier (triodes, Williamson) which was despatched by lightning one terrible night!

CDs - definitely some of mine have significant C-zero 16 hz: for example Gillian Weir in the Priory Records Organ Master Series. Sidling back to the hearing aids theme, I can take significant comfort in hearing the deepest lows while upper highs go missing!

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The days of tubes (which have made a pretty successful return) vs. solid state was the high THD tubes offered. The thing was, the roll offs were more “gentle” to the music, while a low THD solid state amp got kinda harsh. It may not have been as accurate or “true” to the master tape, but it was more pleasant to listen to.

Obviously everything in HAs is digital these days, but I do wonder what experiences were like when there was only analog available.

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Both yourself and @eskie227 should read some of the articles by Marshall Chasin

I’ve been a audiophile since the days when when monophonic HiFi was becoming popular in the 1950’s.

I presently use Oticon OPN S HA’s with a custom music program that can put a smile on my face!

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Love the article by Mashall Chasin you linked to. Lot of information and basic physics there.Given it is almost 10 years old, when it come to HAs nowadays however, I wonder if the limitations described still apply and to what extent? Fascinating!

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Out of the box, with no music program there will be those limitations, for sure.
Your audiologist can enable the "Music Program"which removes compression, feedback control, and gives a much wider frequency response.
Most importantly (Mr. Chasin points this out) is the Hearing aid input headroom or dB SPL.
A HA for music must have ±110dB SPL input to avoid clipping.
This is Oticon’s description:

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Thankyou flashb1024. That Chasin article is deeply interesting - and mercifully clear!
Intriguing to read there that analogue methods can be used to hold back loud music from over-driving the digital processing. That used to be typical in sound studios too, before they went on to develop a huge increase in digital headroom. I think there should be a Chasin Award for the first hearing aid maker to fully address music: dynamics, range, fidelity, adjustability, simplicity! Oh, and affordability!
I’m off to pursue more of his writings.

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Hi Eskie. Our discussion triggered a very helpful response from flashb1024 - linking to Chasin’s research. A fine and encouraging read.
Like you, mono hi-fi was where I began: BBC fm, London studios, all-analogue, linked to nearby transmitter by analogue line, received and amplified at home by valves. I went to an early evening concert and rushed home to hear the ‘delayed broadcast’. Absolutely satisfactory, though stereo would of course have been better.
But away from London, fm listeners endured clanky telephone line distribution, so the BBC built a digital network. 13-bit, ghastly! Piano sounded like a bag of marbles. Voices dark and gritty. Gradually it all improved, but even allowing for fading hearing, fm broadcasts rarely achieve the former sweetness of texture, and DAB is frankly terrible when running at less than 192.
What a challenge to hearing aid manufacturers, to squeeze finesse into a tiny package!

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Hello avir0014. It is incredibly helpful when people post your kind of information because here in UK, on the NHS, we are offered limited options. But they can get extended if we really know what to ask for! Oticon do seem to have a good press and to be long-lasting. I cling to my ten year old Phonak Naidas (and even older spare Danavox) because, perhaps thanks to relative simplicity, they handle music quite well. Recent trial of Signia came to nought because despite real effort by the audiologist, delivering superior results for speech in noise, music was ruined. Chips too clever by half!

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63

Greetings from Spain;

Here in Spain the National Health System does not help directly with hearing aids. Yes, we have a free visit from the ear doctor. But then you have to go to a private center to buy the hearing aid.

You usually have to pay for hearing aids and subsequent visits.

I am personally very happy with OTICON, but I would still be happy with PHONAK. These last 12-channel OTICON OPN are already clearly a benchmark in quality and technology. I thought a couple of years ago that they could hardly improve.

The technical improvement of the latest OTICON MORE is impressive.

Sincerely

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64

Hello - and greetings to you from hot/cold/hot/cold England! Following your note I checked the Oticon More. What I saw used an electrical earbud rather than a mould or bung connected by acoustic tube. Widex also use the wired link and they do have a reputation for audio quality.

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