Do I need hearing aids?

Hearing Loss
22

Well, I am new, so I claim no special insight, only my own experience. My hearing loss is pretty standard after way too loud music when I was younger, riding the subway in NYC just about daily, and the other assaults of sirens, horns, and every other sound bad for your hearing health.

While I am a bit of a techie and early adopter, I found myself drawing the line when I got mine. I wanted it to work well, give me some control for environments, and basically make my life easier by not frustrating my daughter who I had trouble hearing.

My insurance limited me to basic HAs and even then, only one. I guess they figure one is better than nothing. I paid for the second myself. I look at it is buy one, get one free.

No, it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles. No tap to choose different programs, no measurements of my daily activity levels, no fall alert that sent out as a text message if I were to fall and automatically get my daughter all bent out of shape.

What I do have has greatly improved my quality of life. Voices are way easier to understand even through masks (although my word recognition test was really pretty good, so it goes to show not every test bears out in real life settings), I’m more aware of my environment, and it’s nice to stream some music for background listening (although I still prefer good headphones for a serious listening session). Are they perfect? I don’t know, I don’t have much to compare them to. But are they a good fit for my needs? Yes.

I’m not sure everyone will get or need all the benefits of a top of the line HA (and at $7,500 they better be). I know these aren’t cheap, but sometimes buying way more than what’s required is more of a bells and whistles investment. If you can afford them then by all means consider it. But I have nothing but good things to say about a lower level of tech if it meets the need, namely hearing better. I’m glad I started out low(ish). Maybe if my hearing continues to decline and I’m ready to invest in a new pair I’ll reconsider that. But for now all my needs are met without feeling like I bought a decent used car.

2 Likes
23

While my loss is flatter than yours, it is similarly mild. I was also 37 when I got my first hearing aids two years ago. If you find yourself asking people to repeat themselves and turning the volume up higher than other people would set it, you will probably benefit from hearing aids. It sounds like you started trialing a pair - what‘s your experience so far? Do they make a difference for you? In terms of the level of technology needed, I actually have the second highest level offered for the model I‘m wearing (Bernafon Viron 7). The highest level didn‘t make any difference for me, but lower levels of technology definitely didn‘t work for me, simply because I can still hear well enough to hear the difference between the rough amplification offered at lower technology levels and the much more nuanced sound experience that higher end models can provide. Also, less advanced models couldn‘t handle classroom situations, which is where I most need my aids. I would say, with a loss as mild as mine and good hearing aids, my hearing is almost back to what it used to be.

1 Like
24

I have had a similar experience, cookie bite, had fitting challenges and seen technology improve a lot! To me the biggest learning was realizing which frequencies sounds propagate from - right in the middle of the cookie bite. $7500 does seem high. I was fit with the Starkey Edge AI and they have worked well - conversation in noise, while greatly improved is still not perfect. I paid around $6400 for mine, although cost of living may be different - I am not sure if $1000 more justifies. You could try to negotiate or consider ZipHearing.com or similar online option. I personally did not have a great experience with Costco - although I do not think you can beat their price or trial period.

3 Likes
25

I would expect to meet with the audiologist 2-3 times the first 90 days for adjustments. Take notes of what works and what does not (I put notes in my phone like, speech in noise did not go well in a gym or restaurant, ceramic mug on a granite countertop hurts, or plastic water bottles crumpling drive me crazy). After first 90 days, I would suggest every 6 months minimum to get a clean and check. Over time mics will get dirty with sweat, lint, dust and other small particles which will affect the clarity of the sound.

1 Like
26

Really glad you bought a second one. That should help the second ear provide information to the brain.

1 Like
27

Yeah I figured it was sort of silly going with just one. I need a better awareness of my surroundings and one aid can’t do that. I knew it would be worth the investment over the long term, so why get used to one and then go through the learning/conditioning process when I inevitably add the second.

I’m fortunate my hearing loss is not that bad. I’m also fortunate I adapted as quickly as I did. I needed very little tweaking on my first follow up, and I have just a few items I’m hoping to fix on my visit to the audi tomorrow. I’ve read the stories of the struggles some have gone through here, and coping with that along with much more severe hearing loss must be terrible.

1 Like
28

I was in the same situation. The toughest scenario you’ll face is understanding conversation in a noisy environment. What you are paying for is the software algorithms that help you in these types of environments. I paid 6800 for Phonak Paradise rechargeables. 4 years of warranty and support.

Good Luck.

2 Likes
29

@Tom4 so far they’ve made a big difference. One of my problems was hearing my daughter. She lives in a loft like apartment with lots of hard surfaces so lots of bouncing around. I could hear her boyfriend who obviously has a much lower tone voice, but she was always an issue even when facing me. This is with basic technology level HAs from the Starkey Livio line. I can’t see myself needing more unless my loss significantly deteriorates in the future, which I’m sure it will.

Now she can even whisper to me and I get it. She’s getting used to not repeating herself. Just the other day we sat down to watch a movie, and instead of asking her to turn the volume all the way up, I asked for her to turn it down. Certainly a new experience. The frequency lowering thing works great for my loss and my only adaptation has been enjoying hearing things clearly, even outside with city traffic. Haven’t tried a restaurant yet, as the limits on indoor dining in NYC due to Covid have discouraged that, but outside on a relatively quiet street, conversation has been fine.

I will note that for videoconferencing I still prefer my BT headset just for the mic, and for serious listening to music I go to my higher end headphones. The HAs are fine for background listening off of Spotify, but not how I’d rather hear music. They’re fine for phone calls, but I have to use the mic on the phone, which I’ve gotten used to.

30

You’ve certinly got some replies.

I have been wearing aids for 40+ years and there is no doubt that you will suffer both socially and at work if you don’t do something about a hearing loss as soon as you become aware of it.

Whatever the other responses say these are the facts.

Audiologists mark up their acquisition cost from the manufacturer to cover the cost of properly programming your aids.

Any audiologist that tells you they can program in one or two consultations is dreaming.

Even when I buy new aids today I will go back many times to get them programmed properly because the initial programming is never 100%.

That additional consultation time spent by the audiologist is cutting into his/her profit so the less time he/she has to spend on you returning for fine tuning the better the profit result for the audiologist.

Today my audiologist offers me a price without follow-up consultations and a price with follow up consultations.

In your case the quotations would possibly be $3500 for the aids and $3500 for 4 years servicing and tuning.

Don’t listen to anyone who tells you to go to Costco and don’t listen to any audiologist who says he/she can program in a couple of visits.

You can also ask your audiologist for a quote with no follow-up visits and a quote for each time you visit after the initial consultations. If he/she really wants to work with you to get them right he/she will be happy to discuss all options

As an example, after 40 years practice, I currently take the bare bones quote which incliudes sufficient visits to get them how you think they should be and pay $80 each time I require fine tuning.

All this aside, your hearing aids will, at best restore your hearing to 80% of normal hearing expectations but to a hearing impaired person that is an amazing result.

I mentor hearing impaired people and work alongside some of the worlds largest hearing device manuafacturers.

1 Like
31

This is pretty much a nonsense statement. Everyone has different hearing issues.

7 Likes
32

Raudrive. Not sure why you, as a person who is now using the world most advanced hearing solution, would consider a “Shop Front Audilogist” has any skills that were appropriate for progamming your devices.

33

He didn’t say he did. I agree with his statement.

2 Likes
36

Yes! Do it, though maybe at a less inflated cost. The brain is very much a part of our ability to unscramble what we hear - never more so than when there’s background babble, traffic, echo, unwanted music. And the brain has colossal power to adapt, so the earlier we start re-learning the somewhat different sound of assisted hearing the better.
My hearing loss started as a ‘cookie cutter’ mid-dip, then progressed to high-frequency ‘ski-slope’.
Initially I was fitted by the UK’s Health Service with a truly terrible analogue aid. No output limiting and therefore so loud it may well have caused hearing damage.
Later (thanks to NHS, and I could never have afforded anything private even if we had a Costco, which we don’t) I was fitted with a pair of Phonak Naidas. Mine are basic and at least ten years old, but I hear speech and live music very well and volume is kept in check for comfort but not so much that things sound weird. And of course there is manual control.
There are whistles in conversation, because I asked for the anti-feedback to be switched off, as it spoiled music. Some modern aids offer the wearer that choice onboard.
However… when my audiologist tried a new pair of different make I found two things: much clearer speech in noise, but truly awful live music! So quiz your audiologist about that. They do vary greatly in how well they understand, or have even been trained in, the issues around music.
I’m fortunate in mine: Recently-trained, she does appreciate music, was shocked that I heard warble (very common) on live music through the new aids, and having heard the effect for herself has queried the manufacturer. Yes, Anna is a star!
She has tried to get the Music option to work, but with only partial success. A lot of processing is still evident.
Meanwhile I continue with the ancient Phonaks: grateful to the makers for basically good technology and to the original audiologist who checked my hearing in such detail - put a tube down my ears to measure the actual sound delivered, had me listen to a loudspeaker and to his voice through a microphone, checked word comprehension. Job well done at the outset still holds good, no need so far to revise.
Because my day-job involves sound recording, I am indeed lucky our health service was able to help. Otherwise… no work.
Good luck.

2 Likes
37

@ellisonvoice as someone in the recording industry perhaps you have some insight into my experience of late. My audiogram shows pretty typical high frequency loss. I clearly roll off around the 1-2k range, and maintain that downward slope clearly into the bad HF zone.

Since I’ve been wearing these HAs, for female voices it’s made a big difference, less so with male voices, and has generally made me far more aware of the sounds around me. While I used to be the “what did you say?” type of listener, I’ve greatly improved my conversation ability. Interestingly my word scores were quite good when I was tested, yet I felt that was my biggest issue.

Now I have these and can stream audio for background listening. As I’m using open domes, and accepting the nature of the receiver in my ear being limited in things like bass output, I still prefer my headphones for music. You would think with my roll off about 2k, music would be a weak spot without HAs (yes I know the frequency lowering is greatly helping in daily use, but isn’t totally great for music).

So after all that, my question comes down to this. Over the weekend I took a blinded test comparing high compression music (128 mp3) to lower (240 then 320) and lossless flac. In 6 out of 6, ranging from rock to classical to acoustic or female voice, I could sort them all out (with my headphones). Clearly the 128 bit to flac was obvious, but even the 320 bit was discernible. How can I possibly do that with the audiogram I have? I’m not complaining, I’m thrilled I can still enjoy my music as I always have (although no doubt a lot of loud music and clubs and whatnot when I was younger clearly played a role in my hearing loss), but I can’t explain the how. I know I’m better off than do many who struggle with hearing loss so much worse than my own, but I can’t understand how that can work out, and I’m the type of person who has to understand. With your music background, do you have any thoughts or insights?

1 Like
38

Hello eskie227.
Yes, I agree about the greater difficulty with female voices, but I suspect that’s not so much because they are about an octave higher in the fundamentals than males, but because their sibilant esses and effs tend to be higher. So, with high end rolloff like yours and mine, it’s harder to distinguish those critical elements.
The audiologist responded to that by activating a circuit in my old Phonaks to translate esses and effs downwards by about one third of an octave. Along with that was whistle block, operating somewhere around 2k. Together they really helped with speech, but (as you suggest) were no help to live music! Learning piano was difficult, with a high C coming out randomly as C flat or sharp! So I had it all switched off, and tolerate the occasional whistle.

To try and answer your point about quality: my hearing falls from 250 all the way to 4k, then plummets. So to enjoy music from CD (and I really do, mostly classical and organ) I half-dislodge the earmoulds so the bulk of the sound - including the delicious pedal notes - goes straight in and just the top end gets assisted. Apparently many musicians do just that.

Your ability to hear the difference between various encodings is both a musical gift and a b. nuisance, I guess! I can always hear the difference in texture between a wav file I have recorded from live mic, and the mp3 192 kbps copy. That’s just speech. On digital radio, the different bit rates are evident, from terrible 60 to an acceptable 192: but even that is not so clean and sweet as good old FM or CD. It’s surprising that these fairly subtle differences do find their way through the hearing aids. For sure, in my view, high-end extension isn’t the issue - it has to do with the midrange data that is subtracted to reduce expensive bitrate bandwidth. That might please the broadcasting accountants, but does not fool the ear! Piano can really show up the coarsened texture.

Sorry if you did lose hearing because of music when young. My early hobby of making radios caused me to hear very loud screeches and clicks through headphones - of a dominant pitch likely to cause ‘cookie cutter’ dip. I reckon there may be such a thing as fragile ears - and my audiologist (excellent) does not disagree. Hey, take care!

2 Likes
39

Ellison, thanks for your insights. It’s hard to wrap my mind around how in certain circumstances I feel as though my hearing is fine, and others where I can’t hear a conversation correctly no matter how hard I concentrated. I guess all the concentration in the world can’t bring back what is just no longer being transmitted.

It’s interesting you have a similar experience with music, especially with all the compression used on, well, a regular basis, but seemingly all the time. Hearing a lossless recording has become rarer with the rise of your cellphone and something like Spotify as your primary daily listening source. I have found if I use their 320 kbps “very high quality” it’s very different than the typical “automatic” setting of probably 128 k at best. They’re supposedly launching an “HD” version to compete with Tidal for those who want it, and I’ve heard Apple is looking to do the same. I’m grateful for unlimited data as my consumption goes way up with options like that (including local storage for when cellular or WiFi are not available.

As to how much music contributed, it’s far from the only assault my ears have been subject to. Having been born and raised in NYC the amount of noise bombardment is pretty awful, from the subways, to traffic, sirens, and all the rest. I was not surprised by my audiogram when I saw it. It’s just a relief to know I have a solution that works and I should have acted sooner. But I only truly noticed it the last 2-3 years. I guess that’s when I reached the point I could no longer compensate in my daily activities. Now I can sit down with my daughter to watch a movie and ask her to turn the volume down instead of all the way up.

41

That actually sounds fair for NYC with all the options quoted, if that is for Premium level aids.

Mike

42

That sounds about right for a bundled package. I am an hour north of the city and for the highest level of tech was quoted $6500. I would definitely shop around as I did (because I was only offered one brand and didn’t know enough/feel comfortable to make the decision on the spot) and I am glad I did. My audi said she didn’t think I would want rechargables and I love them.

You might ask for pricing un-bundled and then can “pay as you go” past the initial visits. The warranty is from the manufacturer and shouldn’t be varied depending on the amount of “office visits” you subscribe to. Honestly, I have had mine 1.5 years and have not had to go back (although I am due for an updated test) first because of Covid and we just couldn’t, and second I am diligent about cleaning mine, changing domes and wax filters and didn’t need much adjustment, but everyone is different.

I would also try Costco, even for just the free trial, as it “may” fit the bill for you. I did not know about them when I got mine but would consider trying them. It’s not for everyone but it may be for you.

So, definitely, shop around. This is a big decision and don’t feel pressured to go with the first solution offered. You will live with the decision 3-4 years and it is a lot of money. I ultimately found what I wanted elsewhere (my audi did not offer the brand/style I wanted) and paid a lot less, but it is not only about the money.

43

Hi eskie227 Presumably the nearest we can get to a reliable and repeatable lossless recording would be through Blu-ray SACD. I have yet to try that! Or indeed Spotify HD. Mostly I buy pre-owned standard CDs and find them okay if not too vintage and dubbed off analogue originals.
You are so right about city noise, it measurably depletes the hearing of inhabitants. And I reckon a daily commute, say half an hour at 107 dB as measured recently on our Northern Line Underground, is one culprit.
Maybe hearing fluctuates according to our surroundings, hour by hour, which might explain why sometimes we hear conversation well, and others times not so? For sure, getting fatigued never helps!

44

When I got my first set of RICs 5 years ago, the ENTs office Audi offered a pair of Resounds for $6200. I balked and she acted insulted and derisively mentioned Costco.
I promptly went to Costco and got a decent pair of Brios for $2400 + 3 years service.

2 Likes