I have been reading about the Bernafon Verite and channel-free processing. It sounds very interesting and I wouldn’t mind trying it before I make my final decision. I am currently testing Oticon Agil. Has anyone tried both? If so, how do they compare?
As a general rule, Oticon has better products than bernafon. They always have- If you see the WDH presentation, they talk about 1hr about oticon and then they spend 1 minute, saying something like well know we would have this for bernafon. To me - while it is not fair, I feel like Bernafon is a Oticon lite. Just like Unitron seem to be a Downgraded phonak
I disagree with Xbuilder when it comes to the Verite…I have never had an aid as consistently good for high frequency losses and would encourage you to give it a go and report back here.
I hope the agil is as good (better would be great) and am fitting my first client later this week.
Verite V Agil…would love to hear from those who have compared both.
Cheers Matt
www.hearcare.net.au
Hi guys
I have a pair of Agil Pro rite demos! While it’s early days (I got them yesterday) - they do sound incredibly natural (more so than the verite’s)… I’ll do a few more adjustments and maybe change to a power dome before I can give a qualified assessment, but at this stage I still think I can hear better with the verites… I’ve never been a big oticon fitter so i’ll give them a decent run though!
The floating linear compression in the Agils seems similar to ADRO processing employed by America/Australia Hears (my brain hasn’t had time to completely digest all the info about the agils yet :))
Really interested to hear others experiences!
Steve
Hey Steve…don’t you get occlusion when u use power domes?
Hey Matt -
Only a bit… it doesn’t bother me too much though (remember I used to have to wear those good old calaids with skeleton moulds and 2mm vents!)
… have closed domes on my pures and custom tips on my verites… the double domes are a bit of a pain (not for occlusion, just the fit of them for me)
I wish bernafon/oticon would come up with a closed dome similar to siemens…(not tulips - they drive me nuts!)
… Hope things are going well in sunny Mooloolaba!!!
There’s some very good engineers in Bern who would dispute what you are saying there.
It’s like saying that because Bose sells more product than Sennheiser, one is superior to the other. It’s an oversimplification of the case, I’d put a bottle of your favourite Whiskey on a properly tuned Veras being able to outperform/sound better than the Agile for most of your customers.
Put simply, the Bernafon system uses a more seamless approach. If you want to think of Bernafon as Oticon Lite, due to the way the company has been marketed at you that’s fine, but IMHO I’d prefer to drive a Jaguar than a Ford even if the badge on the front doesn’t say so.
Wow, thanks for the replies. I think I would like to try the Verites, but I’m not sure if my audiologist carries them. She is a big Oticon fan. Hearcare, you mentioned that the Verites are good for high frequency losses. Do you think they might work for me? So far I have tried the Epoqs and the Agils, and I’m having trouble deciding which one lets me hear better. The Epoqs worked very well for me in noisy situations. So far with the Agils, the right side has sounded muffled. I’m not sure why, but I’m going to see if my audiologist can fix that before I make a decision.
Hi StrayCat…the only Verites that I’ve fitted that didn’t go so well were three clients with flattish losses like yours…now it’s only three so maybe I was unlucky…they all had power moulds and made similar observations relating to the aids sounding dull and not hearing well in noise…the 50 or so clients that I’ve fitted with high frequency losses have all loved them without exeption…it’s a bit odd because I’ve fitted the Veras BTE and ITCs which are also channelfree with the same good results for the same type of losses that didn’t work out with the Verite Power moulds so I’m not sure whats going on (anyone got any ideas?)…as I said could be unlucky but as a sole provider it’s three strikes your out and I can’t risk poor outcomes so won’t be suggesting the Verite power for any new clients with similar flat losses.
Have found the Epoq (especially XW) with power moulds or otherwise great for your type of loss and only have my first Agil fitting next week…
Steve…that’s interesting about what you say re occlusion…I tend to err on the side of venting but might lean the other way a bit more after your comments. Agree re Bernafon/Oticon tulip domes…don’t use them as they are pretty ordinary. I like the Siemens domes too…but it’s too bad I never seam to get the results I want with siemens aids themselves (not since the days of the Triano anyway!).
Matt
www.hearcare.net.au
o.k so I’ve got double domes in my agils - did I.G and matched NAL NL targets (even a bit more in the highs)
I am very impressed! Went out for dinner last night in a very groovy but noisy cafe and could hear really well - my normal hearing wife struggled more than me
They do sound very natural which is likely to make them a winner for new wearers…
2 reservations though - feedback canceler doesn’t seem as good as it could be (same as bernafon’s) and the cost…
also - I have to be really careful not to necessarily fit clients how I’d like… for example - I’m used to and quite like quite a lot of compression… most clients seem to find it sounds to “squishy” or “muffled”… I also don’t mind a bit of occlusion - but new wearers can’t stand it… I’ve got a good friend who’s gone from analogues to digital and we just turned all the features off to start with…but he’s gradually getting used to the digital sound and even trying automatic directional mics (which he hated initially)… goes to show there’s no one size fits all solution!
Also - I’m with Matt - high frequency losses love the verite- flat losses not so much (they actually seem to prefer starkey cic’s with hardly any compression!)
off to AAA next week to check out all the new bits and pieces… like a kid in a candy shop :)… my wife gets a bit concerned about my hearing aid fetish!!!
More resources are pour on to Oticon than to Bernafon, small example- Oticon has
now Ecaps, Pediatric counceling and connecline demostrator, Products brochure, Epoq WIntergarden all software demo that would allow you as a fitter to dispense more.
It seems there is a strong commintment to advance Oticon as oppose to Bernafon.
Another example was the Epoq, Oticon could have teoretically share its rise chip to
bernafon but it decided to wait almost 2.5 ys till they got something wireless. Another example, Oticon medical (not bernafon medical)- It seems in the WDH - Oticon seems to be the line they want to push.
The same thing happens with Maico and Interacoustics- there is more emphasis in
interacoustics as oppose to Maico. I might be wrong…
Im sure walter Schawb (the name is right ?) would argue that. I would bet this is the
perception out there. I know a lot bernafon dealers (internationally) and they would
think the same thing…
that is if you use the NAL, remember that Agil uses VAC as a default.
I know the IG targets are very similar if you use a Verifit - if not identical.
I know for sure they use Verifit @ Somrum and test they hearing aids with this.
Verifit will be the standart in time…
yeah- I just use NAL because that’s what my ears are used to and it gives me a good baseline for comparison (I like to verify it with IG)
… you’ve got me intrigued with the verifit… coming over to AAA tomorrow (16 hour flight) so might get a chance to check it out…
I agree about the funding, but it doesn’t necessarily yeild a better product: Syncro for example.
The benefit is, that whatever gets made, that it gets marketed to death. Good, if the product lives up to expectations - bad if the customers expectations get raised, then the product is rubbish.
Whichever way, DeMant still takes your customers cash, so they are laughing.
Using the Veras ITCD here for these, seems to be great. Also the Nano micro BTE with Spira tubing if they prefer the slim tube option: with canal moulds for a recent 40-50-50-65-65-75.
What was wrong with Syncro? They were my first hearing aids. I wore them for five years and they made a world of difference for me. I’m just wondering why they weren’t considered a good product.
It was an advance instrument then. I personally never liked Sincro, Tego pro was superior…
talk to bill cole… he is the man…
Not a bad product per se, but they came after the Adapto (which was a bit of a show stopper) and were nothing like the improvement promised in the hype.
They worked quite well for some people, but for many, lesser products like the Tego Pro perfomed better at a much better price point.