What differences to expect transitioning from Phonak to Starkey?

Hearing Aids
#1

I’ve historically worn Phonaks for a long time and had a set of Phonak Virto B Power CIC hearing aids until one recently broke.

Whilst off for repairs, I decided to trial the Phonak Lumity RIC as I’ve always been curious if I’d get better hearing with the bidirectional mics, bluetooth, and was also 3 generations behind.

Speech clarity was a big improvement (yay!) but battery life was extremely disappointing (even with limited Bluetooth usage). Also struggled automatically switching between programs as it felt very harsh - this may have been me getting used to the directional mic capabilities but it stood out to me.

Speaking with my audiologist, we’ve decided to trial the Starkey Genesis AI mRIC. Extended battery life is a big plus whilst still a strong sound quality.

MY QUESTION – One thing I’m apprehensive about is transitioning from the sound philosophy of Phonak (which I’ve had for decades) to Starkey. Any insights as I wait to get my new aids in a few weeks?

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#2

Hi I have moderate hearing loss in one ear and severe in the other…

I have Phonak V90’s (ITC) for the last 7 years and being trying lots of new aids for the last 6 months the first which was the Starkey Evolv AI 2400 which is currently the latest available in the UK, I had no problem transitioning to Starkey and the quality in sound was night and day, so much better and in crowded restaurants I could hear speech on my table with stunning clarity, I did not buy them though as the Bluetooth streaming was patchy at best…

However since then I have tried Lumity Life 90’s , Resound Omnia and currently Oticon Real One, which aren’t bad.

However I really want to go back to Genesis AI when they are available in the U.K. As apart from the Bluetooth they were the best.

I liked how the Starkey would actually speak in English what program you have selected , volume up, volume down etc…

I hope these comments help, but please remember everyone is different.

Kind regards
Ian

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#3

Thanks. Really helpful comments. Curious, do you have an android or iPhone? I’ve heard the Stankey’s tend to connect better with iPhones.

#4

@Conndor Unfortunately I had the iPhone 14 Pro Max (latest at the time) and to be 100% clear it worked fine if you have in your jacket pocket, but not so well in Trousers pocket which I find ridiculous on devices costing this much…

Also tbf none of the aids including Phonak Lumity held connection very well from trouser pocket, not sure if just me :joy:

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#5

Hi

I’m currently trialing the Oticon real ones which I’m finding okay… I’m due to start a Phonak lumity 90 trail next week which I’ve heard good things about. But I also have high hopes for the Starkey Genesis Ai (considering holding off a purchase to get these instead)

Could you explain a bit more why in your opinion the starkeys were superior to the Phonak lumity and the oticon real 1 please, it would be greatly appreciated.

Sound quality, speech in noise, and just speech comprehension in general ?

Thank you

#6

I realised I’ve miss read and you said you tried the Starkey Evolv :sweat_smile:

#7

@Rince Hi, I was really disappointed with the Lumity Life 90’s with Ultra Power and custom meat moulds, you have to understand that there are a lot of people in this forum @JordanK for example who think they are the best thing since sliced bread, when they were first fitted the Aud did Real Ear Measurements and everything and advised they had been set up to be quiet at first but I hated this, I couldn’t understand speech at all next visit they were adjusted and I went
on holiday with them, the only good comment I can make was they connected well with the airplane (TUI) entertainment system using a Bluetooth dongle on the entertainment system side, they were great, however I was on a cruise ship and couldn’t understand conversations in crowds or at dinner, hopeless, I switched back to my Phonak V90’s (7 years old) and all was a lot better 100% improvement, when I returned from holiday, I went to see a different Aud at Specsavers and he took the settings from my v90’s and put them in my Lumitys, 1000% improvement, it was great EXCEPT for speech in loud noise, had adjustments and nothing worked, the Aud explained that the settings taken from old hearing aids boosted the lows so high, which is where speech in noise is lowered, so that’s why it weren’t working properly, he then lowered the lows and then I couldn’t hear speech again, in normal and in crowds, I was really upset/despondent about it all, also for me connecting Bluetooth Classic was a nightmare, I would be on
A teams call on laptop with no sound, I hated the uncertainty of it all, I couldn’t wait to give them back… In hindsight I think I should’ve gone for the receiver level below Ultra power and had a c-shell mould rather than the custom moulds, and turned off Bluetooth on all devices apart from the one I was using But hey go… I’ve been wearing the Oticon Real 1’s for about two weeks now and tbh I’m pretty impressed… The only but is that for the last 30 years I’ve been wearing ITC aids and I prefer them personally. so I’m having Oticon Own 1s fitted in a weeks time, my Aud is convinced I will miss the extra features of the Real but we shall see… another thing is I prefer normal batteries rather than rechargeables because I travel a lot and I don’t want another thing to remember and if you forget the charger you’re screwed, I have the rechargeables for Real Ones as the Aud reckons he forgot I wanted normal batteries, last gripe, no rechargeable case, WTF you
pay £3.5k and they don’t include a rechargeable case, a load of codswallop if you ask me…

Last thing is that I know the Starkey Genesis AI 24 is also rechargeable but at least the batteries last 31 hours (ITC) and with the 24 model you get a rechargeable case…

Finally Starkey have the whole range available with Genesis from day one so no instant downgrade if you want ITE or ITC…

Well sorry for the long comment :joy:

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#8

Thanks for sharing.

I’ve come for battery CIC so am used to having long battery life. Have had Phonak for 20+ years so wanted to stay in the family but the Lumity line (latest) isn’t available in CIC nor replaceable battery RICs.

Trialing the Lumity Slim RIC (I just liked the slims as they were longer so would grip my ear more - no difference otherwise) I thought the sound quality was great. Having directional microphones for the first time was a bit challenging as I could feel where the hearing zones were. Perhaps with tweaking this would go away but not sure.

The biggest challenge I personally had was battery life especially if using Bluetooth. I have young kids and waking up at 6am and going to bed post midnight is normal. I also travel internationally 1-2 times a year and work long hours when on pressing timelines, 2-3am for a week isn’t unheard of.

Given the battery would peak at 18hours (with moderate Bluetooth) this just wasn’t acceptable for me. Others may have more success with different hearing volumes needed and different Bluetooth usage etc.

So I’m trialing the Starkey Genesis AI RIC mini due to the extremely longer battery life (40 hours base). With heavy Bluetooth usage plus 10% deterioration over 3-5 years, I could still experience around 30hours of battery which works well for me still.

If I don’t like it, I’ll probably hold out for the Lumity CIC as I’m guessing the directional mics aren’t really for me.

Curious how the sound is different.

#9

When I was trialing the Phonak Lumity RIC slims this past month, my bluetooth wasn’t too bad. Did get the occasional computer jargon/blur etc type sound but it wasn’t common. Used to walk whilst listening to podcasts.

Did discover in the final week I could increase/reduce noise cancellation which was a nice feature. Could do on my phone via the app, or click the right hearing aid button for increase and left for decrease.

#10

@Conndor Yes agree about the battery life of the Lumity, however as others have said if you get a chance to charge at about 5pm, for half an hour you can extend the battery life for an extra 3 hours or something like that, or was it 7 can’t recall.

Using the Evolv AI I think turning on Edge (AI) made a huge difference the only issue with this was that you have to turn it on, walking down street car noise was greatly reduced, also worked great in car, background noise was well left in the background :joy:, the best was at a long table in a pub, all background noise gone and all I could hear was enhanced speech crystal clear and crisp… it was amazing, I was blown away… Also because aids are MFI you can use your phone as another Mike say further down said table… All great… Please note this was just my experience and others probably will completely disagree… Please also note these were ITC, however a negative were they were quite large, you could the tips of the actual aids sticking out at the sides… they also use exposed metal contacts for the charging mechanism ie magnetic but for the 2400 at least it was a battery case but you wouldn’t be discreetly carrying this around with you :joy:…

#11

My Audiologist used to work alongside Phonak as a consultant. When I went to him I insisted on a Phonak P90 as I already have Roger accessories and didn’t want that money wasted. I bought them online at a cheaper price than he could supply.

He normally now uses Starkey, as he says they are much easier to programme for people with my type of hearing loss. He says Phonak’s feedback manager stops some adjustments being made, and actually reduces gain in certain frequences. Having said all this, he programmed them brilliantly, and I rarely take Roger devices out with me now, as I hear words really well now. However, if and when I require new hearing aids, I’ll follow his recommendation.

Peter

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#12

Thanks for sharing and awesome to hear you’ve had such good success.

I discovered at my appointment my audiologist also wears Starkey so hopefully she knows a thing or two about them! Reading good reviews so very curious to trial them. Fingers crossed. 3 weeks is a long time to wait…

#13

Just my own 2-cents’ worth here: I’ve been a long-time Phonak user, and while I’ve also owned Starkey aids, it’s been YEARS!!!

I just got in to see my dear audi of many years (I was on a trip and made a special visit to catch up!), and he told me that he is NOT impressed with Starkey aids. In fact, if patients mention they want to trial the Starkeys, he gives them the business card of an audi in the area who fits Starkeys.

We didn’t get into the reasons, but my own gut feeling is go with the aids that give YOU the best sound quality, features, settings and accessories. Don’t get sold on the promise of “Artificial Intelligence” which Starkey is trumpeting from the rooftops.

The final decision should be how the aids perform and sound for YOU. You nailed a characteristic that can’t be ignored: speech clarity. If you can’t get that from Starkey, go back to Phonak. Good luck to you!

#14

@Conndor How did you get on with the Starkey Genesis AI’s? Can you provide any comments of how they went for you and are you happy or did you return to Phonaks?

I’m due to get the Genesis AI 24’s ITC in the coming month and just wondered what peoples real life experience is with them?

#15

Thanks Wiggy,

The Phonak Lumpy RICs I trialed had some aggressive programing in there. It would constantly change between modes (noise, quiet, etc) and I could literally feel a wall come up which would block out sound. Personally I didn’t like it but it does have its advantages as it allows you to focus on sounds/speech in noisy situations very well.

When I trialed the Starkey Genesis mRICs, I made sure to keep the programing more automated and only one program type (not multiple like I had before). Honestly the sound quality experience wasn’t as drastic as I was worried about. Battery life was much much better but for some reason the bluetooth didn’t work for me when walking with my phone in my pocket (I also preferred the Phonak Lumpy bluetooth not only because it was higher quality (used more energy) but also allowed transparency modes).

In the end I didn’t feel like I was getting a lot of benefit with my hearing needs having a larger aid so went back to trialing the Phonak Paradise CIC (had used CIC previously for decades). Unfortunately the difference between my 5-6 year old CICs and the new ones felt minor and I had a temp audiologist do a bad fitting. As the audiologist clinic is so far away, I’ve decided to go back to the drawing board with someone new who’s come recommended from a new friend.

#16

Thanks.

Yes the AI is just a fancy marketing term. It’s just a new way the software is developed and honestly, in these early days you may have a poorer experience until the algorithm is more refined in different training environments. (I have a background in AI) But I don’t know how progressed they are so can’t comment fully.

I’m sourcing a new audiologist and plan to go back to the drawing board and potentially explore new brands. Just not impressed by the direction Phonak is going with their lineup and didn’t see meaningful differences when I trialed their Paradise CICs vs my 5-6 year old CICs. Unfortunately the Lumpy (latest gen) hasn’t come out in CIC yet so probably losing a long time customer if I can find another good brand.

We shall see! Just a big sigh as it such a time, money and energy suck. Onwards and upwards :slight_smile:

#17

How’d you end up going with your trials?

#18

LOL! That makes me wonder if the engineers at Starkey may be using ChatGPT to write a heap sort program.

My hubs is an AI guy, and we just did that query at the Bing chat site a moment ago. :wink:

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#19

@Conndor Many thanks for the update, Starkey Genesis line now has a CIC with 312 battery and Bluetooth which according to the guy who does the Hearing Tracker reviews on YouTube has pretty decent Bluetooth connectivity as there is an antenna sticking out of the aid (similar to an extraction wire, but the thing that worries me like all CICs is it only has one microphone… but based on your comments about the naff Bluetooth on the MRIC I tempted to ask for a trial of that instead of the ITC rechargeable as prefer 312 batteries anyway and they are supposed to last 6 to 7 days which I think is pretty impressive…