#102

My biggest pain points started when I realized how little I knew about hearing aids and started to investigate 5 hearing aids for the best speech performance, affordability, support and features that enhance the experience (e.g., Philips Soundmap 2, Jabra Impulse noise reduction).

There’s a lot of info to sift through e.g., some companies nickel and dime you to death (extra for chargers, extra for “premium” support, extra for cleaning, Some audiologists will not do Real Ear Measurements (REM) and offer only 1 year of support after which you are charged. One provider even priced a pair very high and then stated it was for ONE ear only. Thorough reviews are hard to find although I like Hearing Trackers approach. It helped me a lot.

After three weeks of spreadsheeting we decided to use Costco because they sell quality HAs for a reasonable price and give us a 6 months trial period and a 3-year warranty. IMHO that’s a very good deal. OK, sometimes I may have to wait for an appointment but at least I can talk to a live person without having to spend over $4,000 for an HA that may only last 3-5 years with Telehealth support that may be less than perfect.

Costco let us demo the HAs in store after getting a thorough test with three methods of testing that provided us with a very nice audiogram that we could share with other manufacturers.

My wife likes the Costco Philips Hearlink 9040 and I like the Jabra EP 20. The pricing is straightforward and reasonable.

5 Likes
#103

In my country the audiologists :

  • only care to make the SELL
  • not enough experience
  • NO REM
  • no patience and the trial time is VERY SHORT (1 week +/-)
  • some require upfront payment
  • if its about CIC/customs you can not trial, you must pay before, the whole amount
    etc
2 Likes
#104

I just called Starkey Romania to ask a few questions about their latest model and when I’ve asked how many days I can do a trial the answer was: you can not trial at home, please come to our office, test it here a few minutes :)))))))))))))))))))
I hanged up

PS: WELL DONE STARKEY! :smiley:

1 Like
#105

YES, that is exactly what the Phonak rep told me when I suggested such a “Geek Squad” NO ONE would pay for it. But I actually think the younger generation is used to paying for apps and services that they need or want. So I think it could be more of a generational issue. Oldsters (and I’m pushing 69, so no spring chicken here) are used to getting hearing aid setup and a couple follow-ons for FREE.

But then, check in a week later. MANY are disappointed with the aids. They HATE the sound quality, They have no idea how to stream with BT to cell phone or TV. It’s the accessories AND HA programming tweaks that I think cry out for a specialized tech service provider. If that person was experienced across many HA brands, well, YOU BETCHA I’d pay to have him or her work with me for a perfect solution.

As for who has landline? Yes, many have given it up (and serves the big providers right!) but I still have one. I’m used to living in remote places where cell phone coverage can get spotty. Combine that with severe weather (for me, blizzards), and I kept the landline. Granted, it was an internet provider, Ooma, so my calls were FREE. : - )

1 Like
#106

Sounds like you have come up with a business model. Some entrepreneur should pick it up and rumps with it. Folks like me don’t want to pay for guru services and folks like you do. You and those in your camp are a subset of users and the typical AuD probably can’t profitably incorporate the guru into his practice. If there is enough of a market for folks willing to pay for HA tweaks, that could be a stand alone practice.

FWIW, IME with my current AuD, he gets my HAs performing as they should and verifies it with REM. I will also note that I have paid for this service in the bundled price for HAs & 3 years of various services, ergo, it wasn’t free. Given that I have already paid for and received this service, I won’t be searching for an independent HA guru.

I’m 67 and have been using PCs since 1982 at home and work. I have been online since the days of the 300 baud modem. I had no issue finding videos that showed how to set up the HAs with Bluetooth, my phone etc. I was ready when I went to pick up my HAs. That prep turned out to be unnecessary as my AuD walked me through the process. He is roughly my age as well.

#107

If I put aside the technology for now, I would say finding the expertise to provide the aftercare. I believe Jabra has good aftercare but they are essentially "TeleHealth"providers which might work for me depending on the response time. They do have Audiologists that are available if needed. Good audiologists are not inexpensive but can be invaluable for getting the more complex features set up properly to maximize the performance of these devices.

Going back to technology, it is difficult to determine how useful some of the features are with respect to quality hearing. Perhaps the only way to go is to trial a small number of them over time (maybe 4 at the most based on paper specs) and then decide.

2 Likes
#108

I worked in and around technology most of my career. However, the whole process of evaluating HA tech was the most labyrinthine experience of my life. I looked at both OTC and prescription, and I am still not sure I got it right, but at least I feel I have reasonable expectations and will get maximum benefit from my new aids, largely thanks to this forum and associated videos. But it took months of research and I can’t help but think there is a better way.

A big issue for me was finding an audiologist that was not part of some chain/franchise like a Beltone, with people that actually knew how to program aids and get the best results, who didn’t immediately attempt to steer me towards whatever the flavor of the month was (usually their most expensive product) without any idea of how I actually hoped to benefit from the aids. I even tried to locate an audiologist within a 90 minute radius thru Hear dot com and they couldn’t find anyone. I felt like the rule of thumb with many audiologists is that 80% of users only need 20% of the functionality and so that is the approach they take. Costco was doable albeit a bit of a hike, but they didn’t offer the product that I wanted. However, if audiologists are only going to concern themselves with the more vanilla applications of their product offerings, I honestly cannot see how they justify their price structure, because Costco has that nailed.

I think there is room for ala carte pricing and definitely room for specialized techs. I would happily pay someone for their time and expertise to customize my hearing experience. But I wouldn’t pay for product expertise on top of a bloated, industry-wide, 60% markup.

This is probably hopelessly naive, but what would be really amazing is something half way between a Costco and an Apple Store, where people really knew their stuff and could explain and facilitate in-store demos of a decent range of products. It would also help if the fitting personnel were actually certified on the products, and not just for marketing purposes but for actual expertise (if they always are, you could fool me!). While I have no idea what manufacturers actually offer in this regard, they shouldn’t sell product to anyone who can’t program it to its fullest functionality. I know medical equipment is different, but something needs to change. I also feel the first manufacturer or industry group to figure this out stands to make some money. I meet younger and younger people who have hearing impairment.

5 Likes
#109

Absolutely this. In my experience, most audiologists have little understanding of the technology they are fitting. Also, they tend to focus on one or two brands so they cannot help us make an informed decision about the (very expensive) choice we are going to make.

I selected ReSound over Phonak after I went to an open day at my last audi. There were reps from Phonak and ReSound there who did the selling. I went with ReSound because it had better features at the time. The guy from ReSound helped with the initial fitting and after that every time I went to my audi he would struggle with the software and say “oh I don’t fit many ReSounds”.

I spent a long time trying to find an audiologist that actually understands the technology in all brands of hearings aids and also has the knowledge to set them up effectively.

4 Likes
#110

A good independent should be able to do this. (Un)fortunately the industry requires people to sell the product, have the right soft skills to deal with a range of clientele whilst remaining in a position of authority, have management/business acumen AND have sufficient technical knowledge to deal with a developing product range in an industry with a 50%x18month tech decline half-life. That’s a fair mix for one of the poorest paid medical/adjunct careers.

Event the Tech Gurus in your Apple store are usually only dealing with one flavour of SW over several similar-ish devices. They have no need to deal with the human aspect of the problem.

8 Likes
#111

Very true re the human aspect of the problem. And yes, a good independent should be able to do this, but in my region many retired during the Covid epidemic and others rebranded under a franchise. None sold the product line I was interested in.

But what I least understand is the difficulty people have in finding a capable person to tune their hearing aids. What kind of training do manufacturers provide? It is too bad there is no certification process. It feels like finding a capable person is the proverbial needle in a haystack. Why is that? Even dog trainers get certified (and the good ones charge $100 an hour for private lessons I might add). I don’t care if sales are part of the service as long as there is added value. So I guess for me, that is the most painful part of the process.

#112

For me the number 1 turn off is the sleazy used car tactics. Or the choice of only 1 aid mfg

1 Like
#113

For me the biggest headache is the fact that here in the UK we have three possible sources of hearing aids – the NHS (free at the point of use), the high street chains such as Boots and Specsavers (expensive, but I might be able to afford them), and the very posh independent private audiologists (extremely expensive).

I only have experience of the NHS. I’m so grateful to have the NHS, but I still struggle with my hearing. Some people have said they’ve had better results when they went private. Should I try going private? And if so, should I try one of the high street chains, or one of the expensive posh places? On the other hand, some people have said they prefer the NHS hearing aids. Should I stick with the NHS? I’m not an audiologist, so I don’t have the expertise to know whether it’s worth the cost of going private or not. And I don’t have thousands of pounds to spend just to find out.

I find the whole thing confusing and stressful.

1 Like
#114

It MIGHT be worthwhile, but no way to tell until you explore more. I’d try to find somebody that will give you the most time to try the aids with as much refund as possible if you’re not happy with them.

#115

While i know cost and expense of aids is a huge issue. But I also know from my experience in the electronics and software industries that research and development is a huge cost that any corporate or company takes on. Also we as humans and marketing pressures force corporations and companies to produce new items faster and faster. I also know from experience that rushing a product to market leads to mistakes, and mistakes can cost a company its business and go bankrupt. I also know that i am in a unique place because due to my military service and the fact my hearing loss is military service related that i am no paying for my aids out of my retirement for myself, but i am for my wife and it is very expensive. I am also some that use to be very up on all of the break throughs in the industry but no more.
For me my only hope is to understand what people are saying to me. And anymore my best hope for that is a one on one conversation and a very quiet environment.
But i have a question for you what do you want a break through in finding a true help for your hearing loss or just a device that maybe will get you by.
My 20 years of wearing aids has presented my with a huge improvement in aids with the key as of the moment being bluetooth connectivity.
If we press to hard for cheap aids and cheap services we are going to be the losers in the long run.

#116

Unless you have the knowledge to identify which audiologists know what they are doing, you should stick with the NHS IMO. The quality of audiologists at big and small “chain” outlets varies. I used to use a local (to me) chain opticians (had 3 stores IIRC) that also provided HA services. The audis would come in to the optician’s shop one day a week. I found the audis changed quite frequently - I saw three different ones in the couple of years I was using them. The first was quite good, the other two were pretty poor and had very little knowledge about how to set up hearing aids. I’ve used two private, independent audis, one was fantastic, the other was not very good for me. I struggled to hear with my expensive hearing aids.

I have done a LOT of research and have finally found a decent audi near me who really knows their stuff. But I have must have talked to at least another 10 who were not good enough for my requirements.

I have not used the NHS but my father-in-law has. He had profound hearing loss and I used to take him to the NHS for his HA appointments. I was quite impressed with their service, the audiologists seemed quite knowledgeable and were quite helpful. The HAs he had were slightly older generation than you would get privately but still quite functional.

Based on my experience in the UK over the last 15 years I would say going private is very risky unless you know what you are looking for. But then I am quite a demanding customer with specific needs, I’m sure you won’t be quite as demanding as me.

#117

Do you have a Costco anywhere around you? They use best practices and their prices are fair.
It sure might be worth the drive.

1 Like
#118

FYI there are 7 locations in the UK - check here: Costco UK I’ve never tried them myself…

#119

Thanks, but there’s no Costco near me. And, like a lot of people here, I don’t drive and don’t have a car. So Costco is probably not a practical option.

#120

Thanks. I had the same thought you did about it being risky.

You said you did research to find a good audiologist. What sort of research did you do? How did you go about it? I’m not sure how to go about it apart from the obvious things like looking at the websites of various audiologists.

1 Like
#121

Risky how?

Get a test, get a trial on agreed terms and make an informed decision.

All hearing aid dispensing is regulated by the HCPC. You will also find that decent hearing aid audiologists are part of BSHAA who also provide guarantees of service and mediation. It’s a properly regulated industry and heavily weighted towards the customer being satisfied with their purchase.

Why not dip your toes in and actually try some products?: all the ‘research’ in the World goes out the window if you’re considering the wrong factors in your hearing aid or audiologist choices.

6 Likes