Speaking of pills.
I do wish there was a pill that could fix our hearing.
3 Likes
Cholesterol in the body doing what we need it to do in cells on one hand, and blood lipids such as LDL-C on the other are not equivalent. “Can never be too low” refers to the latter.
I exercise, keep my weight under control, don’t smoke nor drink, eat only minimally processed plant foods without added oil or sugar, and I’m 74. I take precisely one Rx medication: atorvastatin. Seven years ago I declined a double bypass in favor of my current food regimen.
Yes, I should have been more specific – LDL is the bad actor. On the other hand HDL can’t be too high.
I know I’m the contrarian here, but I would never take a statin drug. The science supporting them is very thin and sometimes suspect. Having high cholesterol numbers alone is not an actual disease. The disease they claim to be treating is atherosclerosis; the clogging of the coronary arteries. There are better tests available to determine if you have atherosclerosis rather than rely only on a cholesterol number. A Coronary Artery Calcium scan (CAC) is a non-intrusive test that can determine if you have plaque deposits within your arteries. The oldest portion of the plaque will develop calcium deposits that can show up clearly in a CAT scan.
Almost ten years ago I was extremely overweight and borderline diabetic. I tried so many different ways to drop the weight and failed over and over. Following the standard advice of a low calorie, low fat diet, eat less, move more, everything in moderation didn’t work. Eventually I found the right method for me, eliminating sugar, grains and carbs. I lost eighty pounds and all my health markers improved dramatically. However, when you eliminate the carbs you make that up by increasing protein and fats. The fear of consuming fat and meats is highly ingrained in our culture. This is a result of the push to vilify saturated fat that occurred in the sixties and seventies and gave us the Standard American Diet that included the Food Pyramid. What happened after the government recommended this? Well, we all got fat and diabetes is through the roof.
So after several years of increased fat and meats in the diet, my weight and health were improved, but my cholesterol numbers went up. I had always been under 200 as an adult. Prior to my annual checkup at age 61 I knew that my cholesterol numbers were up in the 220 range and I anticipated a conversation with my PCP about taking a statin. Before the exam I scheduled a CAC test on my own, (about $150, not covered by insurance) to see if I had real risk for atherosclerosis. I was also nervous about this because I did deviate from the norm and ignored the warnings on red meat and other things, so I questioned myself. Well… I got a zero score on the CAC. No visible plaque formation. With those results in hand there was no way I was going to take a statin. As luck would have it, my doctor was cool with that anyway. His comment was that although my total numbers were up, the ratios were good. My HDL was at 75 and my Triglycerides were 60 and all my other tests were great.
I recommend that everyone do their own independent research before blindly taking a statin drug. I think the benefits for these drugs have been overstated and the side effects downplayed. From what I have read, the only demographic that have been statistically shown to benefit from taking a statin are middle aged males with a history of heart disease. This latest allegation of hearing loss as a side effect only reaffirms my suspicions.
Books that I have read on this subject:
The Big Fat Surprise - Nina Teicholz
Wheat Belly - Dr William Davis - Cardiologist
The Great Cholesterol Myth - Dr. Stephen Sinatra - Cardiologist
The Primal Blueprint - Mark Sisson
Grain Brain - Dr. David Perelmutter - Neurologist
Websites - videos
TheFatEmperor - Ivor Cummins
Cholesterol Code - Dave Feldman
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once. YMMV.
Thanks for listening - Do your own research before doing anything drastic.
4 Likes
This is the only point with which I agree in your essay, and I’d broaden it to any drug.
Also, there may be considerable genetic variation in risk of atherosclerosis. My father died of an acute MI at age 59. I have heterozygous familial hypercholesterolemia, a genetic tendency to high blood cholesterol. Ten years ago my CAC (calcium score) was astronomical, high 3,000s. Seven years ago, after symptoms of stable angina, an angiogram showed major coronary artery blockages. Based on extensive independent research I declined a double-bypass operation and did a 180° from the high-fat high animal protein “paleo” diet I had begun a few years earlier. I continued with the statin I originally began taking “blindly” about twenty years earlier.
This will be my last word on this subject as I will return to respecting the subject focus of this forum. So please excuse me now, as it’s time for my daily climb of 110 flights of stairs on a StairMaster machine.
I find this statement comical.
How long have you been taking Statin drugs?
You do have hearing loss and wear hearing aids.
Anyway, just giving you a hard time.
20 years for statins. Have taken Pravachol, Zocor, and now Crestor. I am afraid that a lot of my hearing loss is due to something called a 264 Winchester Magnum, and riding motorcycles without hearing protection for 50 years. The reasons for hearing loss are pretty obvious. No need to make any up.
In Alberta, Canada, treatment guidelines for cholesterol are based on the Framingham Risk Score. When I go through that process I come out with a high rating, despite having no close relatives with a heart attack at less than 55 years of age, never smoking, and a blood pressure of 120, but with BP meds. Diabetes and being 70 years of age are probably the main reasons the ratings are elevated.
At a high risk rating the recommended cholesterol targets recommended in our health system are, in US units of mg/dL:
LDL-C: <77
Non HDL: <100
With my 20 mg of Crestor, one hour per day of cardio exercise at the gym, and a balanced diet, I come out at:
LDL-C: 53
Non HDL: 67
So, I am quite comfortable with my results, as I am well under the targets. But I am not naive enough to think my risk of heart attack or stroke is being reduced to zero.
I go to the VA clinic for my medical needs, and I also have hearing loss that is due to my military service. My doctors always pull up risk charts before giving me any medications. I have been told they cannot give me certain medications due to my hearing loss. I am 72 years young, I do take a diaratic for my mild blue pressure issues, and I take a medication for issues I have with my stomach, it seems everything I eat regardless what it is gives me gas and reflux issues. I walk daily about 5 miles, on the trails here, and those trails are not flat and level. over the 5 miles I will climb at least 1000 feet and down tht same amount about 3 times. I normally ride my Vespa Scooter the 7 miles each way to the trail. And the weather hear can be 70 degrees one day and 30 degrees the next this time of year. My total cholesterol stays below 130, and I have been told that is great for my age, and diet. My wife does all of our cooking and the most important thing about our diet is keeping salt, and sugar down as much as possible. Every evening meal is always some meat for protein, and plenty veggies. And everyday we eat fruits and veggies, and mixed nuts. I do not drink coffee, but do drink decaf tea. My weight is the same as it was my 8 years in the service, I just wish my waist was the same.
I also has a Winchester model 70 stainless in 264 Win Mag. That and others and hand guns. Reloaded ammo for years.
Same thing about bikes, have a Harley now.
Then many years around frame 5 and 7 GE gas turbines didn’t help either not to mention high pressure boilers and associated equipment. I think the many years of petrochemical are the big factor in my hearing loss.
We all have our stories for hearing loss.
But I still can’t believe you have hearing loss taking all those miracle Statin drugs.
I inherited a Browning Safari 264 from my father, so at one point I had two guns with the same cartridge. Mine was a Remington 700 and the barrel was shot out, so I decided as a home project I would re-barrel it myself. I got a 28" custom barrel chambered in 6.5 Remington Magnum. It is essentially a near obsolete cartridge but a very good one. I managed to find some brass before I did it, and have more than a lifetime supply. I reload of course and have a chronograph. It is a much more civilized cartridge and with the 28" barrel, smaller case, and less powder I can get essentially the same velocities as the 264 WM. Recoil is a little less because it is a much heavier gun. It shoots OK, but not great. For target shooting I much prefer my 6 BR Savage single shot with a right bolt and left eject. Great target gun, with little recoil and can do 3/8" groups at 100 yards.
I now always use hearing protection for shooting, but the horses have left the barn in that department. I now need to get the cataract out of my shooting eye so I can at least see the target!
Never took statins. Lipitor’s own study of women (the only significant one done with 2,000 women) showed that lipitor either did nothing or increased heart events in women. Other studies have shown that triglycerides are a bigger factor in women’s heart health and those can be controlled with daily exercise (for most) and food changes for some. As to drugs and hearing problems, I’ve had tinnitus since I was a teenager from repeated infections. It got much worse on the 3rd round of azetazolomide. However, there wasn’t much choice in taking this med as the alternative was a brain shunt.
Evidence of statin’s effect on hearing loss is not extensive and is somewhat contradictory. There is some evidence that they have a protective effect when other other ototoxic drugs are given. There are also some studies in vivo (in test tube) that statins are toxic to hearing nerve cells.
I am the furthest thing from knowledgeable about Statin drugs. I just know how I felt when I took them for a very short time. It wasn’t imagined. I also developed acid reflux from Statin drugs. Never had this issue before taking them.
I can not say Statin drugs affected my hearing or tinnitus. Both have gotten much worse in the past 10 years. The Statin drugs were taken about 10 years ago but I don’t think they have anything to do with more hearing loss and tinnitus. Hard to say.
I think the problem that those with pharmacophobia and antivaxxers is that they cannot evaluate and balance risk rationally. They are always looking for a zero risk solution and don’t understand that doing nothing does not have zero risk.
On the statin example I did my risk evaluation using our health care system program and I come out as having a 30% risk of having a heart attack in the next 10 years. That certainly is not a zero risk. If I continue to take statins, my risk of damaging my hearing is probably pretty close to zero. Does it make sense to ignore a 30% risk of death while giving weight to a risk that is essentially zero, and a minor inconvenience? No it does not.
There is no zero risk solution. There is only a minimum risk solution. For me that is taking statins.
2 Likes
Well said. When I learned that keeping LDL-C low (under 70) with a Statin meant plaques would shrink and be stabilized, the light went on. I’m in. It makes my risk of a heart event from plaque buildup very low.
There are other, newer drugs that do this as well, so folks with statin side effects could look into those. Maybe not as cheap and maybe it takes a little longer to get there, but still highly effective.
1 Like
Thanks for that information.
It could be that Statin drugs have changed too from 10 years ago. Or the the dosage rate?
They all basically work the same way. All the ones I know of are available as a generic so they’ve all been around quite sometime. The last I heard the standard way to deal with the muscle ache issue was to try a different statin (we used to think a water soluble vs fat soluble one might make a difference, but it didn’t) or even rechallenging with the same drug. If problem recurs, trying different drugs and then trying intermittent dosing (pill every other day, or every 3rd day for example)
1 Like
Really? Is this your attempt to show disdain to folks up here who haven’t fully quaffed the pitcher of kool-aid that are statins? And when did vaccinations become part of this conversation? You continue all the prescriptions you want, I’ll look at them a bit more critically while refraining from using derogatory terms associated with that mindset.
2 Likes