Siemens TEK -- Review Draft

Hearing Aids
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#1
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PROBLEMS/CAPABILITIES WITH SIEMENTS TEK – REMOTE 11/28/08

I. Malfunctioning of the TEK’s – Read Out Function
a. The Error Symbol shows – quite frequently when pushing the “read out” button.
b. The “read out” display frequently displays only one side battery status.
c. The Read Out status when sometimes just flash up for less than a second then go blank.
d. AA

II. Feature / Capability / Requirement Issues

a. General.
The Features of the TEK are in three primary areas:

i. Program Buttons
This is straight forward
one button for each of the Five Programs

The simpler Remote the ePocket and the on ear button of the Motion series provide – a sequential selection and audible feed back. It is easier and quicker to locate the single button on these devices than finding/selection one of five buttons on the TEK (at least initially) if the Tek is not being seen i.e., in the pocket or purse. This may change with familiarity with the Tek.

The Program display is OK, but the Audio Ques are adequate.

ii. Volume + or –
Again the button locations are not as easy to locate or use as the ePocket.

iii. Read Out Button
This is not available on the ePocket and is a useful feature.
It visually displays the Volume and Frequency. And left & rt battery status.

This is Particularly useful when the Motions are in the LEARNING Period of the first month or so… It would be good if they had a “loaner device for this period.

Also See Section “b. Sound Learning and the Data Learning.” For more detail on a more serious omission.
Pertaining to the I.E. Automatic Functioning of the Motions…

The battery levels are useful. But are not a show stopper.

iv. Treble Control
In my opinion, this can be useful in the Learning periods, However, it could interfere with getting used to the normal adjustments to any Hearing Aids initially. You aren’t use’d to hearing the high sounds, you might cut them back incorrectly, because you have not had time to adjust to sounds of paper etc.

v.

b. Sound Learning and the Data Learning.
I.E. Automatic Functioning of the Motions…
( Not Tek specific.) ( But Tek provides info to facilitate it.)

Major Problem – Also worth noting is that the Siemens’promotional material made a big thing out of the Automatic Functioning of the Motions… due to the Sound Learning and the Data Learning.

I mention this in this review of the TEK in so far as the Tek makes it easier and more accurate to “train” the Motions. It is a problem that exist apart from the Tek.

What Siemens does not tell you even in the User Manuals is HOW & what you have to do to make it “learn”. And this is not just a one time user activation or audiologist programming. You MUST turn the aids OFF & ON for this to be updated. Even my audiologist missed this for two weeks and had to contact Siemens to learn about it’s necessity. As far as other information i.e, Internet links, they would Not say How this learning happens. Although they do have and aERena CD for learning to use the Aids that is LACE like and is composed of 20 – 30 minute lessons. This did not ship with the Ms and had to be specially requested by my Audiologist; after I learned about it on the Internet and Siemen’s site.

c. Do You Really Need BlueTooth?
This question is fundamental in determining IF the cost, size, complexity and other drawbacks are worth it. With the HA, if you can hear the cell phone, TV well enough, you might want to pass on the TEK

d. Cell Phone Usage Deficiencies.

i. Battery Life --First and foremost is the reduction of the Battery Life on the TEK. Months vs. Days.( The Tek battery is rechargeable.) With adapter / usb type.

Per the TEK Manual:

  1. Several Months – “When no transmission of audio signal is active and no telephone has been paired.”

  2. Several Days – “When no transmission of audio signal is active, but a phone has been paired.”

  3. Five Hours – Transmitting an audio signal to from cell phone.

[Having to remember to plug in your TEK nearly every day or have it fail on you could be really troublesome. IF you only marginally need or use the Bluetooth and Cell Phone, I would not pair it up.]

“Pairing” – I am still not completely sure whether having the HA and the TEK “setup” with Bluetooth, constitutes “pairing” for battery life options above. If you have the Bluetooth turned OFF on your Cell Phone; will the battery last “several months” or “several days”? At this point, I don’t really know what constitutes “pairing” for the purposes of the battery life above. I hope to find out from someone.

ii. No Remote Mic

The Tek will not do everything that your Cell Phone’s Hands Free device will do.
The Tek is an Intermediate Device.
HA  TEK- Cell Phone
Your HA has no Mic for Bluetooth. Therefore you must talk into the Tek’s Microphone at a distance of 1.5 feet (optimal). So you still have to hold something to Talk or use voice commands. Tek only transmits Bluetooth signals FROM your cell phone TO the HA. It does not transmit signals FROM the HA TO the Tek. Unlike other Bluetooth Cell Hands Free devices, which transmit your voice from the Ear Device directly to the Cell Phone. The reason for this is the high battery demands of Bluetooth. The TEK can have a large enough battery to handle Bluetooth the HA can not.

iii. Audio Quality –
I have to turn my cell phone volume up, but I hear better quality without the Bluetooth than with the Bluetooth.
I just hold the cell phone to my ear. I have found that holding the cell phone speaker next to my HA’s mics does not seem to work and make any difference. Others can hear me fine either with the TEK Bluetooth or with out.
I have not tried my old Motorola Hands Free Bluetooth set.

iv. a

e. TEC TRANSMITTER
This is used for TV, etc
i. I have not tried this yet …
The main drawback is the Five hour Battery life of the TEK.
However, the TEK may be plugged in.
ii. A

f. A
g.

#2

“3. As far as battery life is concerned. “

a. Paired and Linked – If the aids are both paired and linked it will drain the battery in a few days as you read.

b. Paired Only – If it is only paired than the battery life will be much longer.

c. Paired and Unlinked – Siemens said if you don’t plan on using the bluetooth function much,
you should Unlink the aids but keep them Paired.

To unlink them, place the remote (Assume TEK) more than 30 ft away from the Aids.
Power them both [ I Assume by Both we are talking about:
a) the TEK and b) BOTH aids] down and this should unlink them.
( alternatively, it could mean power down Both Aids?)
They will still be paired so when you think you want to use the phone
you can link them by holding down the green button (on TEK).
You can use the phone to (the) unlink them again.

I tried this procedure, and then pressed the Program 2 button on the TEK.
The TEK display shows BlueTooth Symbol. Same as before.
I am assuming that the Bluetooth symbol just indicates that it is Paired Only.
( This is with my Cell phone Bluetooth turned off.)

What do you think of an Alternative Option below. Does it have the same affect as Option c above?
( You might have to ask Siemens on this one.)
Turning OFF the BlueTooth on the Cell Phone and still leaving the pairing information stored.
When I do this, the Bluetooth symbol on my Motorola RAZR cell phone does NOT display. When I turn Bluetooth ON again on my cell phone, the TEK displays a little phone. I assume that means it is Paired and Linked.

#3

I’m using the Tek kit with my Pure 700’s.

I’ve had and continue to have problems with both the Tek and the Pures - but I won’t repeat them here as they are documented elsewhere.

I agree with your observations. Specifically I find the Read Out operation to be strange. It frequently doesn’t work correctly as you mentioned, but also it’s strange that when you change the volume settings, for example, the display doesn’t update your changes. You have to push the Read Out button see where the levels are…doesn’t make sense.

I totally missed the Sound and Data Learning period and it’s importance - and so did my audi. Thanks for pointing that out. I will be following up with him on that.

I am a heavy bluetooth user and have been happy with the performance of the Tek with this. I have had no complaints from people I talk to regarding the sound quality. I do nothing special with the Tek in this regard. I usually just leave it hanging around my neck.

I also pair the Tek with a Jabra A7010 so that I can use my desk phone. It doesn’t appear that the Tek can handle being paired with the Jabra and my cell at the same time though…I need to investigate this more.

With regards to the battery life comments. I must be unusual in my recharging habits. I have a recharging station at home and I plug in all my devices every night, whether they “need” it or not. In addition to using the phone I also use the Tek to stream music from my iPod, on average 4-6 hours per day. I have used the Transmitter with the tv and have found it works well. I do think it’s strange that Siemens didn’t increase the size of the Transmitter to allow for a larger battery…it won’t make it though the day with how much I use it.

Also regarding bluetooth. I saw not too long ago that the Bluetooth SIG is rolling out a new low-power standard that should allow for bt integration into the HAs.

#4

I use the Tek with Pure 500s.

I do not use the Read Out operation; I used it the first few days and then quit using it and IMHO it is the lesser function of the Tek. I base the volume and treble levels on what sounds the best in the current situation, I do not check the levels via the Read Out, and when I get the low battery tone, I change the batteries.

I too am a heavy Bluetooth user. As soon as I insert my HAs in the morning, I pair my cell phone and I leave the Tek paired until I turn the aids off when I go to bed. I also wear the Tek around my neck and typically only remove it if I sit at a table. I am very happy with the Bluetooth functionally of the Tek.

I charge my phone and the Tek every night.

#5

I realize I am a bit off topic with my original Forum Title: but here goes…

I am still in my trial period with my Siemens Motion 700 ( basically a Pure with on-the-aid Volume and Program controls.

These are my first HA and I function much better with them than with out them. I did expect them to “aid” in my hearing, not restore it. However, I do think that the quality of the sound could be improved. Not only my audi, but others who post comment on the lack of audi training by Siemans.
What can be done to program for better “sound quality”.

Are you happy with your sound quality…
I personally do not really need the Bluetooth all that much.
I can appreciate that others of you DO need and value Bluetooth.

What did you find in terms of “sound quality” offered by other high end HAs?
Were others better in this regard… e.g., Phonak, Widex etc.

Thanks Again

#6

Hi, I just joined tonight while trying to find HA’s that have Bluetooth and came across this site. I’ve a HA wearer for 20 yrs and need/want new ones - trying to figure out what’s best. Want to be able to use Bluetooth - I can now with my very old in the canal aid(reSound) and the BT device paired with my BB Storm. The benefit of audio input from TV and stereo is really appealing also. The audie is trying to get me to Widex aids because they like them, but…when i found that Siemen’s had the wireless integrated in the aid, that seems wonderful - is Siemen’s the only company that has this? Are they the best? My less is flat and 50 to 60 one side, and 65 to 70 other. Any advice is really appreciated.
How much do the enhancements(is that what they are?) of the Tek add to the cost of the aids? (approximately?)
Now I wear the older in the ear on one side and my newer Oticon on the other(i lost the one Otigon, by constantly removing it and inserting my resound to hear on the cell phone-I haven’t had success with being able to hear with the T-Coils)
Thanks!

#7

Your Questions are in {{Brackets}}
My Answers are in plain text.

  1. My Audie also likes Widex… I may trial them … I think they are known for their natural sound. And better in that regard than Siemens??? I don’t think their Bluetooth is as good as Siemens. But your hearing loss seems similar to mine… and I don’t much need the Bluetooth, but I don’t spend alot of time on the phone and I can use my cell phone and land line without H aids. My loss is not as severe in the low range under 1000.

{{ The audie is trying to get me to Widex aids because they like them, but…when i found that Siemen’s had the wireless integrated in the aid, that seems wonderful - is Siemen’s the only company that has this? }}

2, Siemens does Bluetooth.
The Siemens HAs do use wireless… but not Bluetooth directly from the HA. Bluetooth uses too much power and
would drain the small HA batteries too quickly.
The Siemens HAs talk to the TEK and each other in their proprietary low power communications method…
The TEK in turn relay act as intermediary to talk Bluetooth to the Cell pHone or other systems i.e., TV, MP3 Player via another Siemens device.
But it is one way… The TEK only SENDS sounds to the HAs. You talk into the TEK. Then the Tek to the cell phone.etc.

**** See the Siemens --Pure or Motion site to get more information about the TEK. ****

  1. {{ are they the best? }}
    I think they are probably, but Phonak has and some one else (Iticon?) has a similar Bluetooth solution. But not the same as Siemens.

{my loss is flat and 50 to 60 one side, and 65 to 70 other. Any advice is really appreciated. }}

Oticon’s do not do Stereo… Siemens does Stereo.

{{how much do the enhancements(is that what they are?) of the Tek add to the cost of the aids? (approximately?)}}

** $450. **

  1. {{w I wear the older in the ear on one side and my newer Oticon on the other(i lost the one Otigon, by constantly removing it and inserting my resound to hear on the cell phone-I haven’t had success with being able to hear with the T-Coils)}}

The Siemens also does T=Coil.

Hope this helps…

#8

I am a new hearing aid user. My loss is mainly in the higher ranges. My audi lent me equivalent Phonaks and Simiens Pure 500’s to try, and I chose the Simiens. While I did think the the sound quality in the Phonaks was a bit better (less tinny), the Simiens did a better job of allowing me to understand speech, especially in noisy environments, and the audi predicted that the tinny sound issue would lessen over time as my brain adjusted to hearing the higher sounds.

She has now lent me a TEK setup. The cost, if I want it, is $300. (It seems to me she charges less than some others, which is nice, although that’s not the reason I went to her.) I have used it for two days. My reaction so far:

  1. I like the remote because with 4 or 5 programs, I find it easier and simpler to press a button directly for a program, with the remote display reminding me which one I’m on, than to cycle through and try to keep track of which program I am on–especially, e.g., if I am in a noisy restaurant and want to switch to the speech in noise program, and aren’t sure if I am hearing the audible signals in the aids.

  2. I find the cell phone function of the remote very good. I don’t use a cell phone all that much, but when I do I often have trouble hearing well. This is a definite improvement. Hearing the other person in both ears seems a bit odd at first, but helpful. I have just ordered a Jabra hub to let me use this function with my desk phone as well. I think it will be a much better way for me to do hands-free than is a speaker phone. I have found that I can just put the remote in my shirt pocket and the other person can hear me fine, and I hear them well.

  3. I have not found the TV function nearly as satisfactory. It connects fine and I can hear, but if the sound from the TV is also on (as when my wife is also watching!), the speech via the TEK is very slightly delayed behind the speech that comes from the TV. And the sound quality in general is noticeably less good than the TV’s surround sound system (of course), which wouldn’t matter if one’s listening to a baseball game but does for a movie etc. So unless someone has a solution to the delay problem, I would guess that I would not use the TV feature except when I’m watching alone and my wife would be happy anyway to have me mute the TV (as with a baseball game!)

If someone does have an idea for solving the delay problem, please offer it. Thanks.

#10

Mitchell,

I experimented a bit with my wife on our home phone and me on the cell via TEK, and found that it worked best when it was upside down in my shirt pocket, with the mike facing my body rather than out–a bit surprising. Fiddling with the position did not matter much to me–I could hear fine in any position. It mattered more to my wife on the other end, who thought there was some static in the other positions. However, she also said she could understand me fine even with the static–it wasn’t that bad–but obviously it’s still better to minimize it. If you hold the TEK remote in your hand and your fingers are moving on it, as when you pick it up, that seems to produce static for the other person also.

I would ask if there’s a solution to the delay problem with the TV setup! I haven’t had a chance to ask my audi about that yet, but I predict she won’t have an answer, so if your does, I would love to hear it.

I found it just a bit trickier to position the tubes of the Siemens properly in my ear canal, as compared with the Phonaks, so you might want to be sure you are doing that right before you leave the audi. I wasn’t getting them in quite far enough which reduced their effectiveness. My audi gave me a longer tube and smaller dome than I had a first, which helped.

Be sure you have that little brush that comes with them, so you can, when needed, brush wax off the end that goes in your ear. Even a small bit over the center of the dome–less than is visually obvious–can make it seem that the HA has been turned off. The dome also has a little screen in the center to protect the speaker behind it, and one time I mistakenly brushed it right off–now I can tell whether it’s there or not. You should have a set of replacement domes just in case that happens.

One thing I think I will like about the Siemens is their recharging case, which will cost $105 extra. I don’t have it yet, it’s been ordered. My audi says that this is the first one of those she’s seen that seems to work well. Elimintes the need to carry batteries with you. You have rechargables in the aids, you just put them in the case at night, which recharges them, and then the last the whole next day. You can also replace the rechargeable batteries at any time with regular ones if for some reason you need to.

My insurance covers the Pure 500s, and the company seems to have a pretty good deal on them–$1595 each, most of which my insurance will cover which is great. So I’m pretty happy with how this has worked out. Good luck to you.

Ira

#12

The delay you are experiencing is enherent in the Bluetooth technology. If the TEK has an audio in jack, a cable from the headphone jack on a TV would eliminate any delay. You wouldn’t be using the Bluetooth in this case, only the wireless connection between the TEK to the HA.

I am in the process of shopping for my first HA and and researching Siemens as my choice.

#13

Siemens says in its documentation that it employs a special technology to eliminate delay. In fact, I’m wondering if my problem is delay, or just hearing the audio from two sources at once, aids and speakers. If I mute the speakers, there is no problem…certainly no discernible delay simply from the sync with the video. Plugging into the headphone jack doesn’t really offer any new solution, since that also turns off the audio from the speakers. I can just mute them and there is a problem.

Anyway, for me Siemens was an easy choice. It worked at least as well and seemingly better than the Phonak, and was less expensive under my insurance policy. I do think their technology, of actually having a speaker in your ear, rather than tube carrying the sound from a speaker behind your ear. is an advantage. It’s also easier to clean.

#14

I received my Jabra A7010 yesterday. The Tek appears to pair up with it, flashing blue led on Jabra and the Tek screen goes blank. Tek shows a bluetooth connection symbol when I hit program 2 … but it will not pick up the call from the Jabra??? Jabra is about to go back.

#15

The sequence for using the Jabra goes like this -

  • desk phone rings
  • you press the button on the top of the Jabra
  • the Tek automatically switches to phone mode
  • you pick up phone handset
  • begin conversation

It doesn’t work great, like when using a cell, but it’s all we have right now.

#16

Dang … can I hug ya? That is the step I missed and possibly overlooked in the user manual thingy … hit the button on the Jabra, not on the Tek <dohhhh>. Now, does that work when you initiate the call? Dial out using the handset or speakerphone and then hit the button on the Jabra to switch the call to it?

#17

I wasn’t overly impressed with the manual, so I can understand why you had problems with it…it might actually work better with a Jabra desk phone…

To initiate calls, I always have hit the Jabra button first and then picked the handset, etc. But I don’t see why what you describe wouldn’t work too.

#18

Well, my wife is still sleeping, so I can’t go in and get the one normal (not wireless) phone we have to try it out. But I was just reading the manual again as your reply came in. The manual does not say to hit the button on the Jabra, but on the headset. I never thought of trying to tap the pairing button on the Jabra as it is for pairing and I was supposedly paired. Maybe it works the way they describe using a Jabra headset designed to work with this thing. But it sure doesn’t help with either the Tek or with a very good Motorola H710 bluetooth headset. The H710 is the best bluetooth headset I’ve tried to date as far as using with my cell phone before getting these Pure’s.

And being a tech rep myself, I know that when you work for a company supporting its products, you may NOT assist using it with products other than your own. If it works with yours as designed great, if it doesn’t work with others, suggest trying it with your own product to prove that it does work, then offer no further assistance. It makes some sense as you do not have information and specs, nor have tested your product’s functionality with other products … such as Jabra with Tek. So you are cutting your company’s liability and not wasting their precious time trying to assist someone with something you are not familiar with. Although when I was a Toshiba tech rep a bunch of years back, we won industry awards for Toshiba’s laptop tech support because we went that step further and tried to assist as much as possible and gave Toshiba a great reputation. Of course, that was before they outsourced their tech support, when laptops were still the wave of the future and extremely expensive still.

#19

OK, that did work … more or less. I really need to try it at the office I guess. The home corded phone is an antique, a cheap old plastic one, very basic years old phone that doesn’t have very good volume to start with, but we keep for power out emergency use. I could barely hear the one I called and he could barely hear me. And I do mean barely on each end … I had to strain to hear him with the volume turned up full. My office phone is a bit more modern, with a volume control on it if that would have any effect. I did like that the Tek kicked right in as soon as I tapped the button on top of the Jabra. Monday I’ll give it another shot at the office. If it’s reasonable, it stays, if lousy … back to Dell stores.

#20

I don’t have a Tek, but I have the Jabra with the automatic handset lifter (GN1000) paired with a Phonak iCom. If I recall when I first got it, on my office phone, the key was lifting the handset. That’s why I got the automatic handset lifter. To answer calls I just press the button on the iCom and the handset lifter lifts the phone and it then everything is routed to the HA. To end the call, I press the button on the iCom as well, which will lower the handset and end the call.

The only time I have to press the button on the Jabra is to initiate a call. Once I press that, the handset lifter lifts and it follows the same path as above.

So I would highly recommend the handset lifter with the Jabra hub.

#21

Thank you. I was considering one of those after seeing whether this works OK. My next question to you would be how well the Jabra works with the Phonak iCom? Is the volume good? How do people on the other end say it sounds to them?

I did get it to work with my office phone by doing the button on top of the Jabra. The volume could be better, although I can hear it. I’m told that the other end though sounds like I’m on an older cell phone. One of my thoughts is trying the Phonak Exelia’s if I cannot get satisfactory results with the Siemens Pure.

#22

The volume on the iCom is fine, you can always adjust the volume for the bluetooth setting up or down either on the HA or on your office phone. In terms of people on the other end, they mostly say it sounds like your on a cell phone or bluetooth headset, if they comment on it at all. Many people will tell you that regular bluetooth headsets don’t have the best sound quality anyway.

The Jabra also has a mic volume setting on it when you take off the cover in case people say they can’t hear you because your speaking too softly.

But a comment that someone on this board (don’t remember who) actually made fits. You’re wearing HAs so you can hear and understand better. If the other person on the other end who has perfect hearing is a little inconvienced by degraded sound quality (in their opinion), their still hearing better than you were.