Resound Smartt Fit documentation -- where?

#15

I think the CR increases if the gain is higher and gets too close to the MPO as in less of a gap.

My CR is all under 2. I think the higest CR for me, is 1.7.

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#16

Another very important factor in how you set yourself up is what type of general user profile you are under, i.e. Patient Experience Level. There are four choices: Comfort, First-Time User, Experienced (Non-Linear), and Experienced (Linear). The last is a misnomer according to a ReSound audiologist teaching an Audiology Online course. There is just less compression than the Non-Linear version. You get more gain in the latter two profiles and the audiologist advised the Non-Linear is the most satisfactory for the experienced user. The first two profiles are designed for the new users so as to not overwhelm them with gain. When you read your HA settings, you should find yourself in one of these profiles already. In Edit, Preferences, you can change the default User Profile for creating a new patient (plus a number of other things, such as what programs are created for a default new user). You can change the default profile for a patient and recompute Target and Gain curves.

On what’s new in the 3/6/19 Smart Fit 1.4 Update 2 version, unless I missed it previously, in the Restaurant program there is now a new option to set the default degree of Autoscope when the user switches to the Restaurant program by button push or Smart 3D app. It also seems like the fitting layout has been prettied up a bit. Another thing, not sure if I accidentally did something else to create it, but it seems like the Acoustic Phone program might be now added by default when creating a new user. Somehow a new user I created after 3/6/19 now has Acoustic Phone in his profile and I don’t remember adding it myself. I might have been viewing a previous experimental user who had that program added before I created the new user - but doesn’t seem like such a viewing history should be reflected in creating a new user (unless it’s a weird program bug). Too bad ReSound does not provide a change log with its new program versions that I can tell.

The ReSound Smart Fit documentation says that the data is stored in a Noah database. The default extension for a Noah database is apparently .NHA. But I haven’t been able to find a database in the program file folders (x86 and amd64), ProgramData, or AppData or my User Profile. However, you can always backup your patients by exporting their data/fit as XML files (what I do).

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#17

You don’t need new patients. Each patient has multiple sessions.

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#18

OTH, by creating a new patient and naming that person as to the fitting parameters it’s easier to find and view or revert to a previous fitting. If there were a way of searching on sessions for specific parameters, names, etc., that would be better. I think the software is designed for providers who are not overly organized, i.e., ReSound doesn’t want to hit them up with too much database complications, etc.

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#19

How about “AutoRelate”? I wanted to change params in one program but not botch up others. It behaves strangely (to my way of thinking). It looks like you have to have at least one other programs follow changes made in the “left column program”. But if I click Right, Both or Left, it exits. When I go back in it looks like it will still transfer changes to all other programs. Does it work, or am I missing something?
TIA Don

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#20

I’m just creating new patients with the same last name, and a first name of the date I do it.

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#21

Have either of you reverted back to a previous session? Or in your case, to a differently named patient?

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#22

Yes to both. If you go to another patient, when you connect to HA’s you’re asked if you want to use database or HA settings. Going back to a session loads session fittings. After any session whether you’ve changed settings or not, you’re essentially asked to save or forget (plus 3rd choice-at gym, can’t check)

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#23

You are re-inventing a wheel that has already been invented. Worse, yet you are passing this on to new learners. What is the problem you are having with uniquely named session names?

Or maybe you don’t know how to view the sessions? I recall that the Oticon Genie fitting software had some imaginary session problems (or at least one DIYer and his Audi thought so) until I told then to click the client’s expansion arrow in order to view the sessions.

I don’t use SmartFit so why don’t one of you two (or both) post some screen clips of what you think is wrong with session names?

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#24

It’s funny to be so critical when you haven’t even given Smart Fit a spin yourself apparently. A screen capture is posted below this commentary.

It’s also funny when you yourself recommend capturing from one’s HA’s and saving the initial fit done by a provider as a SEPARATE individual/patient and not mixing them in with any DIY playing around as just another session. Think about that for a while if you will.

The most important thing is that IN SMART FIT ONE CANNOT NAME(label) AND SEARCH ON FITTING SESSIONS OR SESSION NOTES. They all get the same generic label, only differ in date and you can’t even search on date. So, yeah, if you kept a separate diary or log, maybe you could just look up a date from your separate notes, i.e. the user providing, say, by a separate database or log what stupid old Smart Fit lacks.

A more important thing is that the Noah database is apparently an SQL relational database. Ever heard of database normalization? You don’t mix apples and oranges. There are primary tables and secondary tables (or subtables). Some things have a ONE-to-MANY relationship. I haven’t bothered downloading NOAH itself to try to examine it or a NOAH database created from the software and I haven’t found the Smart Fit NOAH database that is presumably created so that a fitter for a different brand could read all your past data and hearing records (isn’t that supposed to be the promised of Noah?). But from the way things are set up in Smart Fit here’s what I see above and beyond the inability to TITLE or NAME session notes and fitting operations and search on them, filter them, etc.

The patient and the instruments and the fitting algorithm are more at the level of primary tables. The fitting adjustments are more at the level of secondary tables. If you have a patient, a dome or mold setup up with a certain amount of venting, all the fitting is secondarily dependent on that particular setup. Let’s say I’m me, I’ve fit myself with open domes, and I’m using Audiogram+ (ReSound’s proprietary algorithm) to try different gains. Why in the world would I want to mix in sessions for that patient/person when I’ve switched to silicone molds with a specific vent size, and I’ve also switched to fitting myself with the DSL5-Adult fittting algorithm. That would be absolute nonsense. It’s much less confusing to keep these two setups entirely separate as separate patients with all fitting adjustments and fitting session notes related to the primary setup. Orange peels to oranges, apple peels to apples. Just as you recommend keeping the original provider’s settings read from the HA’s separate from any setting fiddlings of one’s own. Especially since there is no good way to label and search on session fittings or sessions notes. See screen capture below. One can only type in body text in a note. For the fittings, the only two options from the dropdown are LAUNCH or DELETE.

Maybe you should politely ask for our reasons of doing things our way rather than flat out attack them, throwing down a gauntlet and saying justify them if you can, etc. Just a thought.

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#25

I haven’t used AutoRelate (watched training video). The point is to transfer changes that you make in one program to whatever other programs you specifically choose that merit those changes. By default, AutoRelate selects other existing programs if used from the Tools menu or from the Fitting menu in the Windows Titlebar area but not from a specific program tab dropdown menu. Say there were gain changes that you entered in one program by hand and you wanted to make the same manual gain changes in other programs. It would be very tedious to do frequency by frequency, program by program.

I think AutoRelate works instance by instance. You make a change in one program, you want to AutoRelate it to one or more other programs, you have to do it there and then. The change will not be permanently transferred until you save your session. I just made a change to All-Around in an experimental profile, AutoRelate’d it to Restaurant via the All-Around program tab menu, picked Save, then Continue, and the change showed up in the same frequency and input dB in Restaurant as I made in All-Around.

Edit_Update: Actually, if you use the AutoRelate in the tab dropdown for the program that you made the changes, the changes show up in the target program right away (just checked) but as I note above, they’re not fixed until you save your settings. Just transferred some changes from All-Around to Restaurant this way.

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#26

TLDR; You should practice being succinct.

Storing patient fittings as multiple sessions is an industry-wide standard. If you want to change that for your own peculiar reasons then that’s fine. If you want to further complicate self-fitting by using Noah software to organize multiple patients using multiple fitting software then you can do that too.

But don’t teach such foolishness to our newbies. Now can we state what is so wrong with Sessions?

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#27

Sometimes the devil is in the details so too bad for TLDR and your declared lack of comprehension. Great excuse for not facing up to the facts.

BTW, two other uses for an entire separate fitting profile. You can have one called TOTALLY EXPERIMENTAL with the knowledge that anything you do to that profile to find out how Smart Fit works isn’t going to crap up anything anything else and there is nothing to undo to get back to the patient profile actually applied to your HA’s.

A second use is if you’ve created other profiles to just experiment with totally different HA setups, fitting algorithms, power domes vs. open vented domes, if one concludes that that hearing aid configuration was totally useless, you don’t like the algorithm or the domes you tried for that algorithm, you just delete that entire patient profile. You don’t have to search through the only canonical profile that you are using (according to your fitting canon) and delete fitting sessions that are just taking up space because you’ve concluded what you trialed was worthless.

The last thing that’s ironic in preaching “industry canon” is that you’re an advocate of DIY’ing. That’s going against the real industry canon that all HA users should only go to a fully equipped and qualified provider and be sure to have REM’s done to get the best fit. By your very posture of preaching a violation of this canon, you’re teaching foolishness to newbies. Hey, uncertified you can do it yourself without REM - not according to Dr. Cliff.

So if the motto of DIY is find out what’s best for you - and use your brains to do it, I think that any newbie qualified enough to experiment in a productive way with their hearing will not be lead astray by my advice but might profitably learn some useful stuff about how to use Smart Fit, such as it is, database software with warts but specifically designed to work with the in’s and out’s of ReSound HA’s.

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#28

I hate to jump in right in the middle of an interesting discussion, but. Just got some Linx 3D’s a couple of days ago, and so far, I’m not loving them. I have Smart Fit 1.4, and just got my Noahlink Wireless today. I looked Smart Fit over a short while back and thought it was a lot like Target. Seems that Ain’t so. I will need to look at one of those online courses to get going on Smart Fit. In the meantime, the VA saw fit to only give me one program. I decided that more would be good, and made up an extra to try some things with. When I try to program the buttons to change programs, Smart Fit changes it back to volume up, volume down. Does anyone know how to get them to change programs? Also, I found the app rather useless. The only thing I could do with it was change volume. Now, It won’t even pair with my aids to do that. Looks Like I will have to spring for a Resound remote.

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#29

@John_Green - Perhaps you missed a step somewhere. In Smart Fit 1.4, I simulated fitting a “totally experimental” patient. Going to the DEVICE CONTROLS section, then picking the Manual Controls tab, for a short button push, where the right HA was Volume Up, the left HA, Volume Down, I selected Change Program instead, saved the setting, exited Smart Fit, reloaded the patient, went back to simulated fitting and going to Manual Controls again, find that a short button push still is set at Change Program for both HA’s (one would hope just as for volume that one HA buttton takes you forward in program list order, a button push on the other HA would hopefully logically take you one program BACK in list order - but I haven’t tested to see if as for volume, the button pushes work on Change Program in reverse order).

I do occasionally use manual button pushes to raise or lower volumes but find using the Smart 3D app on my Galaxy Note 8 gives me a lot more control over the HA’s. Are you using the Smart 3D app as opposed to the Smart app? With the Sound Enhancer and the Quick Set buttons plus GPS activation of programs, etc., you have a lot of control over your HA’s. That’s one of the reasons I got the ReSound Quattro’s is that back in August/September, 2018, it seemed that the Smart 3D app gave one a lot more fine-tuning of settings than the apps of other HA brands that I tried. I also found that whatever I alter in the Smart Fit software is successfully altered on my HA’s when I actually save the settings to the instrument or vice-versa, that the Smart Fit has always read the settings correctly out of the instruments if my provider made a change and I wanted to examine it. I’ve reordered the programs in Smart Fit and they’ve shown up in the Smart 3D app in exactly the order that I specified in the programming software, etc.

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#30

Jim, thanks for the reply. I did as you said, but still get a message saying that button functions can only be changed from the remote, or app. It must be something to do with my installation of Smart Fit, because I didn’t have the aids connected today. I really want to try a couple of different programs. One thing I noticed was that I only have 9 gain handles, and I don’t think it is even really 9. If I change one, the next two adjacent ones change as well. My Phonak B50’s have 16 gain handles, but the same thing occurs when I change one. The VA had set the MPO to as high as 122 dB, and that was painful, I have lowered it to 96 dB which is better, but still uncomfortably loud. I have been trying to learn the ins and outs of Smart Fit. A lot of the features are the same as my Phonaks, but have a different name. I enabled the frequency lowering feature and so far, I think Phonak’s Sound Recover 2 is superior. I still have a lot of learning and fiddling to do. The app quit pairing to my aids, so I uninstalled it. It didn’t do anything but change volume, which the buttons already do anyway.

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#31

In the simulated fit, I changed both instruments to LiNX 3D LT561-DRW, the lowest level of LiNX 3D. This model only has 6 gain handles (the Quattro 961 has 10). I can still change from Volume Up/Volume Down for short button presses to Change Program. Your problems with Smart Fit seem to be fairly unique. For instance, focusandearnit and his audi have done all sorts of adjustments to his Quattro’s (and before that LiNX 3D’s) so it seems to be something peculiar to your setup. For me, the warning about needing a remote appears when the buttons are programmed for Volume Up/Volume Down and the warning disappears after I have successfully changed the button action to Change Program. Screen capture of warning I see only for Volume Up/Volume Down is below.

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#32

I don’t have this problem, either. For me, default fitting is left and right HA’s are linked and changes to one will change the other. Unlink (Link button, top middle center) to change one HA at a time. If I click on a specific gain box so that it is highlighted, e.g. 1.5 kHz at 50 dB SPL input, then click the UP arrow on gain increments when 1 dB gain is lit up (lower center middle), then only the gain at that frequency for that input level (soft in my example) is increased - or if HA’s are linked, both left and right gains at same input and frequency are increased. If I click on the 1.5 kHz heading at the top of the table, I can increase the gain for all input levels at that frequency. Or if I click on a row label for input level, I can increase the gain for all frequencies from low to high. (One important exception seems to be that prescribed gain levels of “0” cannot be increased or decreased). Also, if I sweep the mouse cursor across contiguous frequency headings, I can increase a bunch of adjacent frequencies all at once with a single gain increment. Same for sweeping across several input levels - I can apply the same gain increment to all selected contiguous input levels - I cannot select discontinuous input levels or discontinuous frequencies - and then, of course, the ALL button applies the chosen gain increment to all input levels and all frequencies (with the “0” rule exception, probably - not tested).

On channels and gain handles, have you read the following thread - I’m sure there are others like in on the forum - the referenced thread is just relatively recent:

See specifically Neville’s comment in thread:

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#33

Jim,
I think it strange that I see so many things that are different from what you see, and what I think they should be. I might try to uninstall Smart Fit and re install. You are right in that I probably don’t really need so many gain handles. It seems to be the perception that the number of gain handles equates to technology level. I saw an aid in the local Sam’s Club that was listed as having 96. I wouldn’t even know what to do with that many. I have some Phonak aids I bought used off eBay, and have struggled to get decent results with them. When I found out that I could get new ones free from the VA, I thought “why not?” My experience with the VA audiology department and these aids have dampened my enthusiasm for the VA. There are things about these Resound aids I like better than the Phonaks, and things I don’t like so much. The Smart Fit software and my problems is one of the things I like less. Right now, I find the Resounds very fatiguing to wear. I am bombarded with a lot of loud sounds I don’t really want to hear. I haven’t really had the opportunity to actually see if they improve speech comprehension. That will be the make, or break thing for me. The one good thing about the VA aids is that they didn’t cost me anything. I saw a brand new pair of the exact same aids, with accessories, on eBay for $600, which is about the same as I paid for my Phonaks. If I can’t resolve at least some of the problems and get some positive results in the next few weeks, I will just return them to the VA. I have been reading the goings on on Hearing Tracker for a couple of years now and I see all the time where people get aids are are really pleased at the difference they make. That has not been my experience at all. I think one factor is that I have probably had severe loss for a long time and grew accustomed to how things sounded that way. I would be fine with my loss with the exception of speech recognition. My word recognition score is 80 to 85 percent, but it is that 15 to 20 percent that is the issue. After a few years of trying to get results from aids and not getting them, I am coming to the realization that they just aren’t going to help enough to justify the hassle of wearing them.

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#34

You can’t say that after a couple of days wearing new HAs that you are “bombarded with a lot of loud sounds you don’t really want to hear”. Give it some time. Then come back and open a new thread (+ New Topic) about your specific topic. By tacking your issue(s) unto the back of this thread your issue gets diminished.

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