Reshape receiver wire on Phonak Audéo Marvel?

Hearing Aids
#1

I’m a new hearing aid user… just a few months in.
I have the Phonak Audeo M 13T aids, and use the open dome.
The wire from the factory has sort of a pre-bent shape with the receiver turning roughly 90 degrees to the side…pretty standard across brands I’d guess…

So how is that pre-bend set at the factory? Heat I’d guess, a thermosetting insulation on the wires maybe…but how much heat?
…is there any realistic way that I could modify the bend?

I’m an engineer and also very handy with tools and gadgets so I’m not afraid of working on these things, but I also know very little about them and they cost a whole lot more than I would want to risk experimenting!

Why do I ask?
The wire loops over my outer ear roughly 1/4 inch out…away from my skull. It’s not horrible as it is, but I was thinking the fit would be better and more “stealthy” if the wire could have more of an S shape as it loops around, so the wire fits snug against my head wrapping around and diving in through the little “groove” formed just above the Tragus (I had to look up that name).
When I push it in with my finger holding it into the shape it really does look a whole lot better…but it just doesn’t take the shape. I’ve even tried over bending them slightly when not wearing but it just won’t take the set…it’s just too elastic
My audiologist has double/triple checked the wire length through the fitting process and first few follow-up visits, so I’m reasonably confident the wire length/size is good.

Thanks

#2

Many of us who have tried re-shaping them with a hair dryer have reported that they stubbornly return to their original shape after a week or so. I agree that it looks idiotic to have the wires stick straight out from the ear and I don’t think that is what was intended by those who design the hearing aids.
My conclusion is/was that the right angled portion belongs inside the canal.
If you have molds made correctly, the entire right angle portion should be enclosed inside the mold, but some mold-makers fail to do that.
If you are using non-custom tips - the kind that usually come with the hearing aids, the neck of the tip should be long enough to fully enclose the right angle. You can buy long(er) necked tips on Amazon or eBay if your hearing aid dispenser does not offer them.

#3

Your Audi has a tool to heat, shape and bend the wire into the permanent shape that is best for your fit. I think they are reluctant to do this, either because they don’t know how, or for fear they will damage the fragile wire. Get your Audi to do this while the receivers are still under warranty. Once it fits and it is comfortable, the shape will last last forever – Longer than the receiver :slight_smile:

#4

Interesting Nate. I suppose that maybe the hairdryer just isn’t getting it quite hot enough to reset the plastic. That’s exactly what I was wondering…

Bummer. If a dryer isn’t hot enough, then I’d imagine it could be difficult to get the right temp without getting so hot as to do damage

#5

oh, and about the right angle portion…mine doesn’t actually stick out there exactly. That part reaches into the ear to set the receiver back in a bit so it’s harder to see. That part seems right to me…but then I have no experience so I don’t know…

And Mago…thanks. I’ll make a point to ask her about it again at my next appt. I mentioned it once before… more or less…in a conversation about the wire length and fit. She certainly didn’t volunteer up the solution! I remember her discussing not to bend and push the wire too much since it is small and fragile…I gathered she was talking more about repeating stresses with trying to shove it in the ear…and causing shorts in the wire.
Anyway, I’ll be more specific this time to see what she says.

Honestly, I kinda doubt she has the gear…or if she does it’s like you said about not knowing how or not feeling comfortable doing it.
It’s funny…I get the feeling that I’m among her younger clientele, and am certainly among the most technically interested. I did lots of research through the trial process and asked her tons of questions… about the testing and audiogram, to retuning, adjusteing, and asking her about doing Real Ear Measurement to verify things (which I don’t think she can do…)…trying the whole time though to tune down the vigor a bit yielding to her position and experience…I didn’t want to be “that” pain in the neck patient…
Anyway, my point is that I gather that issues and questions like this probably don’t come up a whole lot.

#6

I had noticed that and I asked my audi just last week and she said that’s the only way they come. I can’t even get the closed domes to go into my ears, and the open domes sort of go in but always seem to work their way out.

The only thing my audi could suggest is getting a longer wire and push it in deeper.

#7

yeah…that aint much of a solution if they are going in the proper depth as they are!

I tried pushing mine in further… and it does help a tiny bit with my concern, but it’s easy to get too deep and uncomfortable.

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#8

Here is what I am using at the present time - the smallest of the long-necked tips which appears in the middle of the third illustration on the left:

The longer neck encloses the 90 degree portion which I insert into each ear canal with a wiggle motion. They stay in all day but come out easily at bedtime. I actually hear better with these than with the standard tips and the effect is similar to having a custom mold.
I may or may not need these when I get my new KS9s and am taking a wait and see approach.

#9

The part with the wire and the little speaker at the end is called the receiver, and they are pretty cheap, about $40 to $80. But it sounds like it may just be too long. They come in different sizes. I have not had any luck in permanently changing the shape.

#10

I’m not understanding how changing the length of the receiver would solve the problem of the 90 degree angled portion projecting out from the head because that portion is going to be the same length and at the same angle, no matter how long or short the rest of the receiver is.

#11

Yeah, you are right. In my quick read I thought the problem is that it sat high going over the outer ear. If it is away from the head, is it not going in the ear far enough?

#12

No, I think Nate’s issue might be something else.

Mine has nothing at all to do with wire length, the length of the right angle segment of the wire, or with the size/length of the receiver. As I mentioned in the title, it’s the shape of the curve.

I can pull the aid down lower behind my ear to temporarily ‘shorten’ the wire…it won’t pull into the curve I’m trying to describe.
I can jamb the receiver in way too deep and it still doesn’t lay right against my head.

As they are, holding it in hand… the wire comes straight out and over longitudinally, in-line with the aid’s body when viewing it from straight ahead or behind…straight over and down then curves forward maybe a bit less than 1/8 Inch, then turns roughly 90 degrees into the ear receiver.

Instead, I’d like the wire to form a S shape when viewed from the front, with the bottom horizontal bit being formed by the receiver and bit turning into the ear. If it were that shape the wire would naturally tuck right into the crease at the top of my ears, and around into the depression and notch formed just above the tragus…tight against the head and nearly invisible. It’s not the end of the world as is, but I feel like it would be more secure and look better too…

I was hoping to learn what the temperature limits are for doing this in the factory. I guess I’ll have to go with Mago’s tip and wait till my next Aud appointment to ask again. If she doesn’t know or doesn’t have the tools, I’ll ask her to ask her phonak contact/representative about it.

#13

Mine go in my ear far enough that the speaker is not really visible and the wire is flat against my head. I’ve had remakes on the custom molds that would not go in far enough and would leave a little gap with the wire not being fully against my head.

#14

That’s not ‘way too deep’ that’s where it should sit. It that’s uncomfortable, you might have a tortuous canal or you dome size is wrong.

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#15

I’m new and have nothing concrete to base it on, but I seriously doubt that mine aren’t in deep enough. They are very far up in there, the audiologist says it’s good, the receiver is ‘almost’ not visible (you have to really look up in there to see it…and I can’t see it at all in the mirror…not even holding a second mirror to the side…unless I shine a flashlight too, and then it’s just a dark object that looks almost like the black shade of a normal ear canal).

Does this forum have a way to attach photos so I can better explain?

maybe you’re right… my audiologist has checked it carefully a couple times, though. Maybe I’m an oddball in-between size and/or maybe she doesn’t know what she’s doing…but it’s still not the issue. I can take the dome completely off and carefully put it all the way in, and the wire is still looping straight over the outer ear… I can manipulate the thing all sorts of ways while standing in front of the mirror…About the only way I can get it close to where it seems right, is to tip the aid at a totally odd angle behind my ear.

That said, I think maybe you bring up a good point. Even though we tried smaller domes before and they fell out, I might ask for a couple a size or so down to trial a bit more…now that I’m a bit more experienced wearing them. Maybe it’ll help a little in some little way…

#16

I’ve had this experience with all of my hearing aids over the past 8 years. The wire wood stick out about an eighth to a quarter of an inch and was plainly visible to me or anyone who cared to look. I also have the m90 R AIDS and they are fitted with the so-called cap-dome. My solution to fix the problem being discussed was to simply take my time and insert the receiver enter my very narrow ear canal to its very deepest point. When I did that a few months ago for the first time ever they wires played perfectly flat in both ears. I hadn’t done that before because the dones I used where are the standard open variety. It was difficult and painful for me to press those receivers as deeply as they possibly could fit given the shape of that right angle band. So, I would suggest, as gently as possible, that you try inserting the receivers with just the tip of your fingernail as deeply as you possibly can and as they were designed to be worn. Good luck!

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#17

I know exactly what you are talking about. I have the same problem. I push the receivers in as deep as possible, squeeze the wire where it comes out the ear to try to get it to lay against the side of the head and push it against my head where it passed over the top of the ear. However, because the wire comes straight out of the centre of the hearing aid (behind the ear) it cannot lie right up against the head without pushing the hearing aid out at an angle. It would fit better if there was a little kink close to the hearing aid body to enable it to lie against the head as it goes over the ear. And my glasses make it even worse.

I too would like to know how to get a permanent set without damaging it. I have a heat gun with a variable temperature that goes a lot hotter than a hair dryer, but haven’t risked using it.

#18

You might want to take a look at Dr. Cliff’s videos on R.E.M. at:

#19

Thanks Nate!
Actually I have already watched those, and that is where I first learned of the concept of REM. I think he has another one too…something like the worst excuses to not do REM.

I think he brings up interesting points… and as an Engineer, I would greatly value the baseline data. In fact I’m kindof irritated that I don’t have the data…
It’s just that though…baseline. Seems like it’s maybe a perfect place to start…to get the sound that’s in the ear tuned and amplified to precisely whatever is predicted as necessary based on hearing tests… then the nest steps would still need to be what was done for me in my case…

It seems to me that all of that perfection of the sound delivered to my ear canal makes not a hill of beans worth of difference if it’s not sound that I can use.and considering that understanding speech is the primary focus of the industry, it has to be sounds I can use to understand speech.
So I do think what my audiolgist said and did all seems very plausible as “good practice”… I mean what she said about REM being most useful for kids who can’t intelligently respond or describe what is going on…, and what was done by in booth aided testing…along with long conversations about my experiences in daily use, adjusting to optimize all of that… address complaints, etc…

I think the biggest reason I would like to see the REM data is to verify what I’m getting regarding ambient sounds, and not so much the speech side of it.

Anyway, i do enjoy watching Cliff’s vids. I have definitely learned a lot and wish I’d have found him (and this forum by the way) before getting as far along as I did with hearing aids…

#20

I was not happy about how the wires were working with my ears until I tried a slightly bigger dome from a different manufacturer (Phonak domes on Evoke aids). Not only are the domes much more comfortable, the larger dome keeps the wires a bit more firmly in my ears and the wires closer to my head. Much better.