Remove hearing aids before panoramic dental x-ray?

Thank you surdi for your last three contributions and the substantiation through the supplied very relevant and interesting publications. I needed some time to read them carefully. An extensive discussion is possible on this to go into detail on these pieces. Probably more suitable for a dialogue among us nurds with Zoom or Skype or scientific publications than under this topic, which was started by mazda4me and asks for the answer to the more practical question “Remove hearing aids before panoramic dental x-ray?”. But personally I am very happy with your information.

The scientific value of this cannot be underestimated. The implications that the interface has among technical developers and users cannot be endorsed enough. The practical value for the HA user and audiologist and the user should be paramount here.

The X-ray beam used in a dental panoramic x-ray is a very special one compared to a CT and/or conventional examination. A special kind of ‘tomographic imaging’ is used. A cut slice with a depth of field/focus of a few centimeters centered along the line of the teeth. Various techniques are used to achieve the correct flat kV by means of tube voltage and focusing, including filters. And the exposure time is also very limited locally along the row of teeth. Of course, earrings, pearcings and HA are generally removed.

In practice this would mean that the radiation damage to the HAs is present. However, this is also unavoidable in nature: think of the use of aircraft at height and radiation from buildings in which we live.
As is also apparent from the articles you quoted, the Fail Bit Ratio of the memory used by the HA is undesirable, but does not necessarily have to lead to loss of function. However, it cannot be ruled out and has not to be ignored.

Even if you take the HA off for an OPT/dental panoramic x-ray, where would you like to put them safely in an x-ray dept at that moment? The same applies to your mobile phone, your creditcard and all other goods containing these chips.

By the way Surdi to go into one of your questions Computed Tomography exists in many forms. Multiple beams, but also multi energy/kV and automatic current adjustment. The more money, the more setting options in general.

In conclusion: If you are unlucky, your HAs will eventually break with or without dental panoramic x-ray. The chance this will happen is not very big, but do not take unnecesary risks. You will most of the time be asked to take them off because they can negatively influence the diagnostic value due to the disturbed imaging. In addition, this examination/potential risk is not done without a solid indication.

@emile.heilbron: I’m chuckling at the post I’m about to upload to the Forum! The image is one that shows technology at the other end of the spectrum of sophisticated diagnostic imaging devices that you scientists are discussing. It shows the standard issue Oticon carry case for More1 hearing aids…

This little case has a smooth, flat profile that makes it easy to pocket. The gowns you make us wear for diagnostic imaging procedures are without pockets, however, so I have successfully fashioned makeshift lanyards for my case by simply GorillaTaping a suitable length of paracord (with knots tied in each end) to the underside of the case. While this getup can’t be kept on one’s person during the actual operation of the X-ray source, it is unobtrusive enough to be able to be smuggled into examination rooms so that it’s close at hand when the moment comes when one’s hearing devices must be applied or removed.

My objective in designing the SpudCap(sule)®️ was not to subvert hospital protocols, but rather, it was to ensure the proximity and accessibility of my hearing aids, when they were needed in order to dialogue with my caregivers.

[During the ER visit to which I referred in my previous post, I presented doctors with a rather different set of facts. I had recently had a cortisone injection to my sacroiliac joint. The injection must have come too close to a nerve, and resulted in such intense pain that it precipitated an arrhythmia (right bundle branch block), and abnormally high blood pressure. The DD was uncommon enough that a rather long medical interrogation was necessary, during which I was obliged to wear my hearing aids, which had never been properly fitted to give me good comprehension. The frustration on the part of my caregivers was so pronounced that a nurse actually asked me if my aids were working. My inability to understand and answer questions on the first pass made me feel old, dull-witted, and disabled.][No imaging was involved in this episode, but I was prepared!]

My point is that medical professionals should not require me to check my hearing prosthetics at the door. They are part of me, without which I cannot function, and it’s no more appropriate to treat these as “checked baggage” as it would be to ask a patient to leave their prosthetic leg at the front desk.

The knowledge demanded of mankind today is so overwhelming that it is hard to comprehend :wink:

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… my invention reflects my Neanderthal roots!

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I had a bilateral cataract removal operation recently. There is far too much liquid around for wearing hearing aids to be possible in that situation, so I took them out and put them into my pocket as I sat on the operating table.

I had already agreed with the surgeon that I would do this and said that I would need him to speak up if he wanted to ask or tell me something, in particular about whether to proceed with the second eye once the first was done. He said “That’s ok. I will shout. I need the exercise!”

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I carry my aids in a leather pouch, usually marketed for keeping e.g. air gun pellets in. A nice sturdy rigid thing, with a clip for a lanyard, where I also keep a couple of spare cells and tube cleaning wire. They come in 2.5 and 3.5" diameters. The 2.5" one is just right for my aids, and fits well in a pocket or slung around my neck, inside my shirt.

Since I am quite active and outdoorsy, reluctantly I take them out and pop them in the case when the weather becomes wet and windy. Rather common in the UK. Otherwise wear a wide brimmed hat to keep water away from them.

Current aids are Siemens Octiv M+, not waterproof. New aids, due soon, just waiting on the earmoulds to be completed, will be Phonak Nathos Novas, which are IP68 rated and “nano coated”. But I will still baby them.

At night they are put into a desiccator of my own devising, using self indicating silica gel pouches. PS: don’t put the partially used zinc-air cells in the desiccator, that may dry out the electrolyte inside them, reducing their life. I alternate the cells each day, between ears, to even out the usage, as my RH aid operates at higher power than my LH one, so gets through the cells more quickly.

These are NHS aids. The new Phonaks are the NHS version of the Phonak Marvel, at I think technology level 7 out of 9. The NHS hereabouts are set up to tweak them remotely using the MyPhonak app. and/or recall me for face-face fine tuning using e.g in ear measurements, as was done for my Siemens. Anticipating them eagerly, and looking forward experimenting with all the bluetoothery benefits, for phone calls, music streaming, making own custom settings etc.


@Surdi: Being an air rifle fanatic myself, I am familiar with that getup, however, here in Canada, they’re very pricey. When I’m out and about, I’m usually wearing cargo pants (the closest thing to fatigues I can find) so my Oticon case gets pocketed. It has the advantage of having form-fitted rubber inside the case that provides excellent water and pocket crud protection, in addition to shock protection, the Oticon case seals quite well. I’ve actually run the stream from the bathroom faucet directly around the edge of it,@; and only a drop or two of water has gotten inside.

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£25 for two, or £15 for one from ebay in the UK, delivered. That’s the larger size, which I think would have enough room inside for a silica gel pouch as well. In the small one I have, the aids fit neatly, don’t rattle around, and it fits smoothly inside a trouser pocket alongside my wallet. I’ll PM you some links if interested, the seller might post to Canada, if you enquired. Otherwise perhaps I could do that for you.

Certainly better than just putting the aids into a pocket etc.

@Surdi: Thanks for your kind offer. I always put my aids in their Oticon case (I have 2, strategically stowed away) before pocketing them, which occurs but rarely (I suspect the Oticon case is about the same size as the smaller leather pouch- about 3" across?j. If I were still able to spend a lot of time outdoors, I might be able to get good use out of those lovely, English-made leather pouches, but it would be such a rare occurrence …

Let me cipher on it a bit, please.

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Here’s a CT scan of my P90R.
We runned it with 125kV, 0.195mA, for 47min. Distance to tube was 110mm. Continuous exposure with industrial CT (no shutter-technique as it is used for medical devices).

Btw: the HA still works without any issue. :blush:

SectionView

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@Surdi: I appreciate the kindness of your offer very much - I’m not going to take you up on it, however, because I rarely have occasion to remove my HAs before bedtime.

My hospital excursions are events that I earnestly try to avoid. When I do have to head in to the ER, my wonderful wife and best friend of 32 years is with me, to hold on to my *Genuine Oticon More Carrying Case" and poke me in the ribs if I get cranky with the patient registration personnel!

That fine leather pouch would be wasted, but thank you anyway, for your kind consideration.

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Wow, that’s impressive. The packaging of all that is really interesting.

I think I see three boards there, flexible interconnects. Maybe a mic. board doing analogue stuff, the digital brains, and and possibly the bluetooth board. I think there might be glob-topping of bare chips in places. And using ceramic substrates for the two digital ones (thick or thin film hybrids).

The side x-ray also.

Just my speculation.

I see how the rechargeable cells are spot welded to the connection wires, and how the charging contacts are attached. Maybe not something that a a local repairer could replace easily, unless they solder the ends of the wires onto the boards, as is shown.

I see no telecoil, nor internal “receiver”, just the connection for the external ones. but maybe that fat thing that looks like a big chip capacitor is actually an inductor for the telecoil.

My, soon to be delivered, Phonak Nathos Nova Ms, have to pack those in as well. They must be crammed.

Much respect to what is inside these things, that might not be fully appreciated by some.

Good to hear that your inspection process didn’t wipe the memory, though I dare say that that is not used on 100% of devices. That’s reassuring.

Yes, it is very impressive how cramped it is.
My full respect to the developers.
And yes, I don’t have a telecoil, I think the fat thing is a cap.
If you like, I can upload the data to a cloud server for you. And a link to a free viewer. Then you can play around and explore deeper.

Do you have any more technical information on the CT scanner you used as f.i. slice thickness and collimation. Nice pictures by the way :slight_smile:

It seems there are different terminologies for medical and technical X-ray equipment.
I asked the specialist who operates the CT. He could not answer your questions.
The slice size could be what is called voxel size (resolution) in his world. That is about 20 um.

Thank you anyhow, great resolution… it’s a bit off- topic here :wink:

I must say, as an electronics hobbyist, seeing this makes me feel much better about how much I paid for my P90s! Maybe the big hearing aid companies should encourage more of this (or leak some occasional rough CAD stuff now and then) to get us off their backs a little bit :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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When I remove my hearing aids before a dental procedure, should I be storing them away from the office?
Should I leave them safely stored in my car?
Or is it sufficient to put them in the storage case in my pant pocket as I’ve done in the past?

This has been a fascinating thread. Thank you everyone for your contributions.

@DaveL: Dave, as long as it’s out of the direct focal point of the beam, I think you’re okay (but remember - I’m no tech guru!)

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I always wear my aids, but remove them for x-rays, any dental treatments. My dentist is well aware of my hearing loss and works great with me.

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