Phonak Spice

[xbulder]

Im willing to bet a beer that Phonak WOULD NOT upgrade free of charge current owners. Perhaps a marginal discount…

[hearnow]

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement. I’m so glad that everyone appreciates my posts. Suffering from hearing loss is an ongoing challenge and its made easier by sharing information from other people who are dealing with the same problems.

davidbarry: I spent about 3 months testing the Smart IXs before I started testing the Alera 9s. I really liked the Smart IXs and I really wanted to keep these hearing aids. In many ways, they are a leap forward compared to other hearing aids. As an example, the Smarts do an amazing job with environmental sounds. When I started using these hearing aids, I must say that I was able to hear so many different sounds that I hadn’t noticed in the past. Stuff like birds chirping, traffic, machine noise, and other sounds were all suddenly there again like a memory that has faded and returned. These aids give you one of the most realistic environmental experiences that is available today. The Smarts are also excellent with Music and the wireless synchronization between the two aids for switching programs is awesome.

The one and only area that they don’t do well in is speech in noisy/busy environments. The more that we played with the settings and the more that I thought about it, I began to realize that there was a problem with the way the hearing aids were processing sound. The reason I say this is that the hearing aids did such an amazing job with background sounds but the minute that the noise levels increased to a certain point, voice sounds started to dramatically distort. The typical scenario was that I would be sitting in a very noisy restaurant with a bunch of people around the table. Sounds like dishes clattering, kitchen sounds, chairs moving would be crystal clear but the moment that the person next to me started talking, I found their voice to be distorted and difficult to understand. Sometimes I could even hear people at the next table talking far better than the person sitting next to me. It was almost like the hearing aids had decided to focus their processing power on the loudest prevailing sound and were treating the voices of the people next to me as unwanted noise. This wasn’t only restricted to noisy restaurants. The other scenario that drove me crazy tended to happen at the office during meetings. I would typically be in a large meeting room with 5-10 people and all was perfect until the air conditioning system decided to cool the room down. The moment the fan turned on, the Smart IXs would somehow focus on the fan noise and the voices of the people talking in the meeting would start to distort and/or be difficult to understand. I would try switching programs and turning up the gain using the remote but it didn’t always help. Kinda makes you start to wonder if there was a software error in the code that was telling the hearing aids to do the wrong thing. My audiologist had a different theory. He felt that Phonak’s approach to noise reduction was to cut out lower frequency sounds when the noise levels hit a certain point. I guess the theory is that most unwanted noise tends to be in the lower frequency range and that by cutting lower frequency sounds out, you make voices easier to hear. Whatever the case may be…I found that the hearing aids really fell down in noisy environments. As I’ve said before, hearing aids that can’t deal with noisy environments like restaurants are really a waste of money.

Lets all wait and see if Phonak has addressed this issue with the upgraded Spice versions. If they have managed to fix the speech in noise issue…these aids would certainly be at the top of my list. It would also be nice if Phonak owned up to the deficiencies in the original version and offered to upgrade current owners for no charge.

I will post more on Tuesday after I get fitted.

JordanK.

I suspect your inability ot hear speech clearly in noise is most likely linked to how the aids were programmed, as it sounds like the sensitivity was too high regarding the soundflow swithcing for you needs. The speech-in-noise program also seems to have been the one distorting, which might have meant too low MPO settings if the far away speech was louder than those voices close by. Phonak up to now has been very technical hearing aids, being very sensitive to the fitter’s skill levels. The new Target software for the Spice platform, seems to ensure that the quality of fitting is more consistent irrespective of the fitter’s skill levels.

I would also like to see how any manufacurer, not only Phonak, would upgrade clients to the next modle for free… I don’t think so.

[SuJaDon]

I suspect your inability ot hear speech clearly in noise is most likely linked to how the aids were programmed, as it sounds like the sensitivity was too high regarding the soundflow swithcing for you needs. The speech-in-noise program also seems to have been the one distorting, which might have meant too low MPO settings if the far away speech was louder than those voices close by. Phonak up to now has been very technical hearing aids, being very sensitive to the fitter’s skill levels. The new Target software for the Spice platform, seems to ensure that the quality of fitting is more consistent irrespective of the fitter’s skill levels.

I would also like to see how any manufacurer, not only Phonak, would upgrade clients to the next modle for free… I don’t think so.

Bit frightening to the general public who pay out $10,000.00 for a pair of hearing aids to learn that they are only as good as the “fitter’s skill levels” and that hopefully the new Target software will rectify this…mmmmmmmmmmm

[Stratuscom]

How do you block the vents? And if you do that, don’t you feel occluded and block in.

Micropower IXs are one version earlier than the Smarts. You can block the vents with a small piece of rubber or other pliable material. Yes, it will feel occluded, but you will be able to determine if the processor is sacrificing clarity to prevent feedback. My vents were 2 mm in diameter. The audiologist had plugs with a 1 mm hole that improved clarity without feeling totally occluded.

[cnicklo]

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement. I’m so glad that everyone appreciates my posts. Suffering from hearing loss is an ongoing challenge and its made easier by sharing information from other people who are dealing with the same problems.

davidbarry: I spent about 3 months testing the Smart IXs before I started testing the Alera 9s. I really liked the Smart IXs and I really wanted to keep these hearing aids. In many ways, they are a leap forward compared to other hearing aids. As an example, the Smarts do an amazing job with environmental sounds. When I started using these hearing aids, I must say that I was able to hear so many different sounds that I hadn’t noticed in the past. Stuff like birds chirping, traffic, machine noise, and other sounds were all suddenly there again like a memory that has faded and returned. These aids give you one of the most realistic environmental experiences that is available today. The Smarts are also excellent with Music and the wireless synchronization between the two aids for switching programs is awesome.

The one and only area that they don’t do well in is speech in noisy/busy environments. The more that we played with the settings and the more that I thought about it, I began to realize that there was a problem with the way the hearing aids were processing sound. The reason I say this is that the hearing aids did such an amazing job with background sounds but the minute that the noise levels increased to a certain point, voice sounds started to dramatically distort. The typical scenario was that I would be sitting in a very noisy restaurant with a bunch of people around the table. Sounds like dishes clattering, kitchen sounds, chairs moving would be crystal clear but the moment that the person next to me started talking, I found their voice to be distorted and difficult to understand. Sometimes I could even hear people at the next table talking far better than the person sitting next to me. It was almost like the hearing aids had decided to focus their processing power on the loudest prevailing sound and were treating the voices of the people next to me as unwanted noise. This wasn’t only restricted to noisy restaurants. The other scenario that drove me crazy tended to happen at the office during meetings. I would typically be in a large meeting room with 5-10 people and all was perfect until the air conditioning system decided to cool the room down. The moment the fan turned on, the Smart IXs would somehow focus on the fan noise and the voices of the people talking in the meeting would start to distort and/or be difficult to understand. I would try switching programs and turning up the gain using the remote but it didn’t always help. Kinda makes you start to wonder if there was a software error in the code that was telling the hearing aids to do the wrong thing. My audiologist had a different theory. He felt that Phonak’s approach to noise reduction was to cut out lower frequency sounds when the noise levels hit a certain point. I guess the theory is that most unwanted noise tends to be in the lower frequency range and that by cutting lower frequency sounds out, you make voices easier to hear. Whatever the case may be…I found that the hearing aids really fell down in noisy environments. As I’ve said before, hearing aids that can’t deal with noisy environments like restaurants are really a waste of money.

Lets all wait and see if Phonak has addressed this issue with the upgraded Spice versions. If they have managed to fix the speech in noise issue…these aids would certainly be at the top of my list. It would also be nice if Phonak owned up to the deficiencies in the original version and offered to upgrade current owners for no charge.

I will post more on Tuesday after I get fitted.

JordanK.

Hi Jordan,

One thing that might helpful to those following your trials of different hearing aids would be to share the results of your audiogram in your signature. It would be great to understand where your hearing loss is as compared to ours.

Don’t know if you’d be comfortable doing this but thought I’d offer it as a suggestion.

Take care. . .and thanks again for all your efforts.

Chris

[nc2kids]

@ JordanK, will wait for your updates on the Spice Generation.I agree with cnicklo, if posting your audiogram is not an issue it would be helpful to others in comparing notes.

[davidbarry]

I suspect your inability ot hear speech clearly in noise is most likely linked to how the aids were programmed, as it sounds like the sensitivity was too high regarding the soundflow swithcing for you needs. The speech-in-noise program also seems to have been the one distorting, which might have meant too low MPO settings if the far away speech was louder than those voices close by. Phonak up to now has been very technical hearing aids, being very sensitive to the fitter’s skill levels. The new Target software for the Spice platform, seems to ensure that the quality of fitting is more consistent irrespective of the fitter’s skill levels.

I would also like to see how any manufacurer, not only Phonak, would upgrade clients to the next modle for free… I don’t think so.

Well I’m about 9 months in and I’ve seen 4 audiologists, 1 recommended by Phonak and another associated with a nearby hospital, and they still can’t get these HAs adjusted right. And I’ve seen many posts saying “it’s only a programming issue,” but I don’t believe that’s true anymore. I think it’s an issue with the aids themselves as JordanK has said as well. Unless the software is so complex that 4 audiologists can figure it out–which might well be true. But what does that say about the software? Poor software design, I would say. Kind of like the early days of PCs when you had to use MS-DOS.

This is the problem with the industry. It’s a desparate need for millions of us suffering with hearing loss, constant advances in technology, profit and marketing driven, and complexity that is mind boggling. On top of that, it’s hard to have standards to compare since all of us have different hearing losses. Which is why I am thankful to have this hearing forum to share notes and insights.

All 4 audiologists tell me that they don’t have many problems with other patients using the Audeo Smarts. So I would start to think i was crazy if I didn’t hear other voices on this forum validating what I’ve been experiencing. And yes I think Phonak should own up to problems in these HAs and certainly offer some type of upgrade discount (large) to Spice. I can’t help but think that all of the negative commentary I’ve heard about the Smarts in this forum impacts the Phonak brand. But they continue to be mum on the issue. In fact, the best high tech companies are always monitoring web 2.0 forums like this and Twitter to make sure their brand is not being negatively affected. It would be really nice to have a Phonak rep weigh in on this forum and give an explanation about this issue with the Smarts.

[xbulder]

Well I’m about 9 months in and I’ve seen 4 audiologists, 1 recommended by Phonak and another associated with a nearby hospital, and they still can’t get these HAs adjusted right. And I’ve seen many posts saying “it’s only a programming issue,” but I don’t believe that’s true anymore. I think it’s an issue with the aids themselves as JordanK has said as well. Unless the software is so complex that 4 audiologists can figure it out–which might well be true. But what does that say about the software? Poor software design, I would say. Kind of like the early days of PCs when you had to use MS-DOS.

This is the problem with the industry. It’s a desparate need for millions of us suffering with hearing loss, constant advances in technology, profit and marketing driven, and complexity that is mind boggling. On top of that, it’s hard to have standards to compare since all of us have different hearing losses. Which is why I am thankful to have this hearing forum to share notes and insights.

All 4 audiologists tell me that they don’t have many problems with other patients using the Audeo Smarts. So I would start to think i was crazy if I didn’t hear other voices on this forum validating what I’ve been experiencing. And yes I think Phonak should own up to problems in these HAs and certainly offer some type of upgrade discount (large) to Spice. I can’t help but think that all of the negative commentary I’ve heard about the Smarts in this forum impacts the Phonak brand. But they continue to be mum on the issue. In fact, the best high tech companies are always monitoring web 2.0 forums like this and Twitter to make sure their brand is not being negatively affected. It would be really nice to have a Phonak rep weigh in on this forum and give an explanation about this issue with the Smarts.

they do… Someone from Sona (phonak sister company did contribute at certain point)

[EnglishDispenser]

And yes I think Phonak should own up to problems in these HAs

I have spoken to a QA director at Phonak and they were positive that NO major issues existed … now that the cable mounting problem has been resolved.

and certainly offer some type of upgrade discount (large) to Spice.

No hearing aid - or its fitting - is perfect. If this discount route were normal then MANY people would claim problems simply to upgrade cheaply.

[Um_bongo]

Bit frightening to the general public who pay out $10,000.00 for a pair of hearing aids to learn that they are only as good as the “fitter’s skill levels” and that hopefully the new Target software will rectify this…mmmmmmmmmmm

I’d say that has everything to do with the price. You’re not just paying for a piece of hardware, you’re asking an Audiologist/Dispenser to personalise a hearing system based on your physical and psycho-acoustic needs. Surely the bulk of that value is in the performance of the ‘fitter’, not just the small piece of electronics on your ears.

[adrien24]

Are the vents that people are referring to the hole next to the one with the wax guard?

If anyone gets a chance, I’d love to see if an audiologist thinks that “technically” Spice receivers can be interchanged with CORE (Audeo YES) receivers.

The Spice Audeo YES looks exactly the same in photos as the regular Audeo YES.

I’d be interested to know if there’s a possibility that Spice SuperPower xReceivers could work with the Audeo YES instruments (which only go up to Power xReceivers).

SuperPower xReceivers are new for the Spice version of the Audeo YES and I just bought these a year ago.

Just to add… the microPowers have a larger range of HL than the Audeo YES. I am disappointed that Phonak hasn’t addressed this… they sort of have with the SuperPower xReceivers, but there’s not as much flexibility if you compare side-by-side.

Anyway, as an Audeo YES user, I’d love it if there was even a possibility that Spice Audeo YES (Audeo S YES) SuperPower xReceivers would work with Audeo YES hearing aids!

So, if you see that the hearing aid receivers look the same, please let me know. Is the wire the same size? Is the connection to the hearing aid the same?

Phonak did say the receivers were not interchangeable, but sometimes what they say may not be true technically. Probably wishful thinking on my part.

[JordanK]

Hi Jordan,

One thing that might helpful to those following your trials of different hearing aids would be to share the results of your audiogram in your signature. It would be great to understand where your hearing loss is as compared to ours.

Don’t know if you’d be comfortable doing this but thought I’d offer it as a suggestion.

Take care. . .and thanks again for all your efforts.

Chris

I’ll post my audiogram on Tuesday. The last one I had done earlier this year is filed away in my office somewhere. I’ll get a photocopy from my audiologist on Tuesday and post it.

JordanK.

[JordanK]

I had my initial fitting of the new Audeo S Smart IXs and I’ve been wearing them for a few hours. Here are some initial observations:

The hearing aids look the same as the old Smart IXs except the dome on the RIC is a new design. They are sorta torpedo shaped with a hole in the tip with a small arch of rubber that arches across the hole. They seem fit better than the tulip domes and they stay in my ear much better. Also…the battery cover seems a little more sturdy

There are lots of new features on these hearing aids. The most notable ones are SteroZoom and ZoomControl. Both of these features show up as programs in one of your program slots and get automatically selected in the auto mode. You can also use the remote or cycle through the programs by pressing the button on the hearing aids to access these two new programs. These programs showcase these hearing aid’s ability to transmit signals between hearing aids. In other words, these programs take sound from one of the hearing aid’s microphones and transmit it to the other ear in order to improve sound in noise, etc. If you look on Phonak’s website, it explains it in detail. I will let you know what I think about them after I have played with these programs for a while.

Another new feature that I thought was cool is the way the volume control works on the remote. When using the volume control, you can setup the hearing aids to only turn up the volume within the speech range of frequencies. This is good because I only turn up the volume on the hearing aids when I can’t hear someone talking. I generally don’t want the background noise to also increase in volume. This should be extremely useful in programs with lots of noise reduction and/or noisy environments.

After watching the audiologist program these hearing aids, I must say that the new software is completely different and extremely complex. Its going to take all of you audiologist some time to figure out how to use it properly…

So far so good. The Phonaks definitely give you a busier sound experience (vs. natural) compared to the Alera hearing aids. The real test will be speech in noise.

I will keep you all posted. I have attached my audiogram as a .jpg Can someone help me translate this into numbers that I can add to my signature? I’m not sure if the numbers I see in all of your signatures are db loss or percent of normal hearing. I need some help…

JordanK.

[sonor_zildjian]

I’ve used the new fitting software now for some days…it’s more than complex, but also easier to follow than the iPFG. It’s a big step ahead for programming HA. F.ex. you have present the audiograms as history (ok i can also view that in NOAHaud, but i have to change window and and and). It could also be very nice the idea of a 2. monitor to show the clients what you’re doing eliminating most of the technical terms…let’s see the first fittings…

for the audiogram:
250 Hz; 500 Hz; 750 Hz; 1 kHz; 2 kHz; 4 kHz; 6 kHz; 8 kHz;
R 45 dB; 55 dB; --------; 50 dB; 55 dB; 60 dB; 70 dB; 90 dB;
L 25 dB; 35 dB; 50 dB; 60 dB; 60 dB; 65 dB; 90 dB; 90 dB;

[aero777]

I keep hoping that when I select “check for iPFG Updates” in the help window of iPFG 2.6 it will give me the opportunity to download Target 1.0. But, so far no such luck. If anybody knows how to upgrade to Target via the web, please instant message me. Thanks!

[Um_bongo]

It won’t. iPFG just had another update the other day. Target is a separate new platform and installs as a new module completely separate from iPFG.

[SuJaDon]

I had my initial fitting of the new Audeo S Smart IXs and I’ve been wearing them for a few hours. Here are some initial observations:

The hearing aids look the same as the old Smart IXs except the dome on the RIC is a new design. They are sorta torpedo shaped with a hole in the tip with a small arch of rubber that arches across the hole. They seem fit better than the tulip domes and they stay in my ear much better. Also…the battery cover seems a little more sturdy

There are lots of new features on these hearing aids. The most notable ones are SteroZoom and ZoomControl. Both of these features show up as programs in one of your program slots and get automatically selected in the auto mode. You can also use the remote or cycle through the programs by pressing the button on the hearing aids to access these two new programs. These programs showcase these hearing aid’s ability to transmit signals between hearing aids. In other words, these programs take sound from one of the hearing aid’s microphones and transmit it to the other ear in order to improve sound in noise, etc. If you look on Phonak’s website, it explains it in detail. I will let you know what I think about them after I have played with these programs for a while.

Another new feature that I thought was cool is the way the volume control works on the remote. When using the volume control, you can setup the hearing aids to only turn up the volume within the speech range of frequencies. This is good because I only turn up the volume on the hearing aids when I can’t hear someone talking. I generally don’t want the background noise to also increase in volume. This should be extremely useful in programs with lots of noise reduction and/or noisy environments.

After watching the audiologist program these hearing aids, I must say that the new software is completely different and extremely complex. Its going to take all of you audiologist some time to figure out how to use it properly…

So far so good. The Phonaks definitely give you a busier sound experience (vs. natural) compared to the Alera hearing aids. The real test will be speech in noise.

I will keep you all posted. I have attached my audiogram as a .jpg Can someone help me translate this into numbers that I can add to my signature? I’m not sure if the numbers I see in all of your signatures are db loss or percent of normal hearing. I need some help…

JordanK.

Thanks for keeping us updated Jordan. Looking forward to hearing what you think of them in a day or so. I am patiently waiting until Friday to see what the Australian website of Phonak shows as being available here in Oz and then I will contact my Audie once again.

[cnicklo]

Hi Jordan,

Since I asked about it, here is your chart in a format you can paste in your signature file.

---

Audiogram
Left ………Hertz ……Right
25……………250…………45
35……………500…………55
50……………750…………NA
60…………1000…………50
60…………2000…………55
65…………4000…………60
90…………6000…………70
90…………8000…………90

One question for you as you’re trialing different HA models. . .Have you ever discussed the Widex Clear 440s with your Audiologist? I’m seriously considering them, but they’re not yet available in the U.S. (they are in Canada).

They seem to offer much of what you’re looking for - binaural wireless, wireless TV, cellphone, music capabilities, etc. . .The cell streamer has a plug in feature so you can transmit music without using bluetooth for better fidelity.

Chris

I had my initial fitting of the new Audeo S Smart IXs and I’ve been wearing them for a few hours. Here are some initial observations:

The hearing aids look the same as the old Smart IXs except the dome on the RIC is a new design. They are sorta torpedo shaped with a hole in the tip with a small arch of rubber that arches across the hole. They seem fit better than the tulip domes and they stay in my ear much better. Also…the battery cover seems a little more sturdy

There are lots of new features on these hearing aids. The most notable ones are SteroZoom and ZoomControl. Both of these features show up as programs in one of your program slots and get automatically selected in the auto mode. You can also use the remote or cycle through the programs by pressing the button on the hearing aids to access these two new programs. These programs showcase these hearing aid’s ability to transmit signals between hearing aids. In other words, these programs take sound from one of the hearing aid’s microphones and transmit it to the other ear in order to improve sound in noise, etc. If you look on Phonak’s website, it explains it in detail. I will let you know what I think about them after I have played with these programs for a while.

Another new feature that I thought was cool is the way the volume control works on the remote. When using the volume control, you can setup the hearing aids to only turn up the volume within the speech range of frequencies. This is good because I only turn up the volume on the hearing aids when I can’t hear someone talking. I generally don’t want the background noise to also increase in volume. This should be extremely useful in programs with lots of noise reduction and/or noisy environments.

After watching the audiologist program these hearing aids, I must say that the new software is completely different and extremely complex. Its going to take all of you audiologist some time to figure out how to use it properly…

So far so good. The Phonaks definitely give you a busier sound experience (vs. natural) compared to the Alera hearing aids. The real test will be speech in noise.

I will keep you all posted. I have attached my audiogram as a .jpg Can someone help me translate this into numbers that I can add to my signature? I’m not sure if the numbers I see in all of your signatures are db loss or percent of normal hearing. I need some help…

JordanK.

[hearnow]

Thanks for keeping us updated Jordan. Looking forward to hearing what you think of them in a day or so. I am patiently waiting until Friday to see what the Australian website of Phonak shows as being available here in Oz and then I will contact my Audie once again.

Australia gets Ambra and Yes/Smart/Mini IX,V and III like the rest of the world. I also have my prices set if you want to PM me to find out what my Australian pricing is.

[JordanK]

Hi Jordan,

Since I asked about it, here is your chart in a format you can paste in your signature file.

---

Audiogram
Left ………Hertz ……Right
25……………250…………45
35……………500…………55
50……………750…………NA
60…………1000…………50
60…………2000…………55
65…………4000…………60
90…………6000…………70
90…………8000…………90

One question for you as you’re trialing different HA models. . .Have you ever discussed the Widex Clear 440s with your Audiologist? I’m seriously considering them, but they’re not yet available in the U.S. (they are in Canada).

They seem to offer much of what you’re looking for - binaural wireless, wireless TV, cellphone, music capabilities, etc. . .The cell streamer has a plug in feature so you can transmit music without using bluetooth for better fidelity.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for you note and thanks for helping me with the audiogram.

I haven’t considered the Widex Clear hearing aids. My audiologist prefers to work with Phonak and GN Resound products. Last year I asked him about some of the other brands (Oticon, etc) and his opinion was that Phonak and GN Resound represent the leading edge and that many of the other brands fall down in one or more areas. In particular, he indicated that the competition’s sound processor’s were not up to the same level. He does raise a good point. None of the bells and whistles are worth anything if the hearing aids are unable to perform in a wide range of sound and listening environments.

I’ve been wearing the new Audeo S Smart IXs for a day now and they are surprisingly good. In fact, they seem to be a major improvement over the old Smart IXs and very close to the Alera 9s. They passed one test last night with flying colors (understanding small children who have high pitched voices and talk too fast) and I’m planning on taking them to the office this morning to see how they do in meetings, noisy cafeteria, etc.

I will post more on my impressions later tonight.

JordanK.