Phonak Paradise P90-R can't be switched on / crackle in left HA

Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY]
#1

Hi everybody

I cannot switch my right P90-R to ON anymore.
I tried already many times the HW-reset-trick:

  • keep ON-Button pressed for 20s
  • back to charger for 2s
  • remove from charger

I had this problem sometimes before, but then the trick was working.

I cannot connect to Target of corse, but somtimes I can read at least the device information. I says on the last line after all the other information: “IsFullyBooted: FALSE”

Anyone an Idea how this could be solved?
Do I need to send them for repair?

Another issue I have with the left HA: since 3 to 4 days I have a very loud crackle / rustling. It is almost unbearable. It softens when the volume is reduced. And it’s not there at all in streaming.
I repeated the hole setup from the start (set HA to factory reset / enter audiogram / feedback test / audiogram direct / global tuning etc). Still there.

Anyone an Idea?

Thanks for any reply!

Phonak Audeo P90-R Programming
#2

Somehow you need to get that aid to start charging on the charger. Be persistent trying to put the aid in and out of the charger to get the light to start blinking.

The crackling sounds like a bad receiver or bad receiver wire connection if it was not doing this before. Try swapping receivers and see if the cracklings follows the receiver or stays with the aid.

Good luck.

#3

Thanks for the hint Raudrive!
I tried it again after a break (not in charger). Back in charger, it started charging right away this time, took it out and it worked fine!
But after about 2hs, the aid stopped working (suddenly dumb) -> with solid green LED again.
I pressed the button for 20s, waited 5min, back to the charger and out. -> ok again.
I think one must wait a while after having pressed the button for the 20s.
I’ll go to use the aids for a day or so and see if it stops again.

I see what you mean by a bad receiver. I had it before with my previous HA.
To verify, I now tried to exchange the two receivers (left -> right and right -> left). But the problem stays with the aid, not with the receiver.
And its working fine in streaming (I set mics off in my streaming options).
In other programs, when the mics are used, its constantly there, maybe more like a white noise.
Interesting is: when I switch from ‘calm situation’ to ‘speech in loud noise’ the noise moves from left to both aids (to the mid of my head).
Can it be the mics? As far as I understand, Real ear sound / ultra zoom / stereo zoom are using sophisticated algorythms using the time delay of the sound waves between the mics. Could the calculation be mixed up by damaged mics?

#4

You are doing good troubleshooting.
A mic sure sounds like it is bad. Are the aids warranted?

When you get the aid to charge, what color is the blinking light?
Try letting the aids reach a full charge, green light stops blinking.
Then try to wear the aids to discharge the batteries to a lesser % battery charge and then recharge to solid green light again.

Aids may need servicing.

1 Like
#5

Thank so you much for your help!
Yes they are in guaranty, but I bought them in the internet, sending them back is complicated, custom fees etc. I’ll try a local Audi and see how cooperative he is…
The aids were almost full when I charged them overnight. Started with flashing green, steady green this morning. But I’ll try the unload/load thing and will know more tomorrow.
Anyway, I’m afraid you are right with the mics.
I found another way to demonstrate the effect, I think this proves also that it’s a mic problem:
There is the “client view” feature in Target (never thought I’d need that again…:slight_smile: )
It shows the mics signal in real time (display option “unaided” is selected). You see that the left aid’s signal has noise whereas the right signal was almost nothing in my quiet situation:

image
image1423×825 160 KB

#6

The noise disappeared after the second night with full recharge!
@Raudrive thanks for the tip!
How did you know it? I mean, is there a technical explanation for it?

1 Like
#7

The noise never reappeared since then.

But I have the feeling that the StereoZoom feature is not working as good as before. (Speech in loud noise, directional front-hearing). The noise from the back now just sounds hollow but is still there.

Meanwhile I did some research about the technique behind this feature. As far as I understand, the algorithm uses the 4 microphones (2 for each HA) to build and array of mics. Delay of soundwaves allows to detect the direction of the voice source, and subtraction of the signal of some of the mics allows to mute their unwanted signal.

Therefore all mic’s signal need to be calibrated, this is done at the end of Phonak’s production. But also while using them day by day with some kind of self-calibration.

If one of the mics is damaged: Could it be that the self-calibration algorithm causes the HA to ignore the signal from now on? The aids could still work fine otherwise, speech recognition and so. But directional features wouldn’t.

Has anyone made some similar experience?

#8

Something you might try is to test the aids in Target.
When you first open Target along the bottom next to updates is the test and trial button. There you can test, update or reset to factory settings.
Testing might uncover an issue. There might be an update needed and you could also reset the aids to factory settings then reload your fitting.

This might uncover a hardware or software issue or not. I can not see it hurting anything.

Something I learned with a set of rechargeable marvel aids was to not do programming in the software without the aids being hooked up first. Once I was making some changes and then decided to hook up the aids to load the changes. It locked both aids up similar to your first post. By being persistent with the charger the aids finally started charging on the charger. By letting them complete the charging cycle I never had any more problems.

Good luck.

#9

Thanks @Raudrive, I made the test, it seems everything ok.
Update: It says I already have the latest SW
I made then the factory reset and reloaded my last setting.
May need some days to test in appropriate hearing situation.
I let you know as soon as I know more.

1 Like
#10

I’ve got everything working fine now. Short form:

  • left side: Mic defective, electronic replaced
  • right side: receiver replaced.

But I would like to share the experiences I made since my last post:

The crackling/white noise on the left side never appeared again. But I still had the feeling that StereoZoom in loud noise didn’t work as before. Also speech was not clear in that programm, like in a huge concert hall.
But worst of all: My left HA blocked again every now and then.
Sometimes it lasted halve a day sometimes only an hour or so. That was extremly frustrating. It took often hours to get it back ON with the reset-procedure.
At last I couldn’t get it back On at all.

I found a local audi who was so kind to send them for me to Phonak for repair.
I got them back 3(!) working days later:

  • Left aid: Mic defect, electronic replaced in guaranty (so I was right with my feeling about the StereoZoom)
  • Right aid: No fault found!

They worked fine for a halve a day, but the right side started to block again!
Did I make a bad mistake in Target?
I made the factory reset and reprogrammed everything new. No luck.
I remembered that the receivers where not connected when I got the HAs back from repair.
Did they test them without receivers?
But what if the receiver has a weak contact or a short circuit which somtimes causes the HA to block?
I went to the AUDI and bought a new receiver for the right HA.

Everyhting is just fine since several days now!!!

#11

Something you can do when you suspect a bad receiver is just switch them and see what happens.

If you are using different powered receivers on each aid I don’t think this process will work but not sure.

Glad to hear you got things figured out and your aids working right.

1 Like
#12

Yes, your’e absolutley right, but I never suspected the receivers.
And since it wasn’t permanent, it would only have worked if I’d had them swapped for a longer time.
Anyway, I find it useful to know that a bad receiver can cause a HA to block.
And in future i’ll alway keep a spare pair of receivers for such cases :slight_smile:

1 Like
#13

Do hearing aid receivers have a shelf life? I had an old pair of working Widex receivers in storage. When I hooked them up a couple of years later the left one was dead.

An aside… why oh why are hearing aid speakers or drivers called receivers? Receivers are microphones which receive sound. Speakers or drivers output sound.

#14

From the electronic side, I can only imagine that the contacts can oxidize. It has no other component in it that could age.
Yes, is an unusual expression for the speakers, somehow not correct. Also for me. Apparently it just kind of evolved in the HA professional world. Also here (in the German language) they call it receiver instead of loudspeaker.

#15

Well the receivers get the input from the microphone, so it “receives” the sound.

No, I have receivers over 7 years old in perfect working condition.
They sometimes don’t last that long in use tho ; )

#16

@KeithL, @tenkan

I found another tread, where this was discussed earlier in detail:

#17

Great, it explains quite clearly, thanks for sharing.

#18

Hi Sterei, have you found “a local Audi and see how cooperative he is…” ?
Mine in Germany uses Audiocon fitting software (coupled with Phonak ?)
and I’m not happy,
would pay for email questions like
“can Phonak Target adjust equalizers (Speech), noise reduction, dynamics (DRC) independently ?”
Thanks, cheers
– denis

#19

Yes, and he was willing to send my HG to Phonak for repair. For a small contribution towards expenses of about €50.
I do the adjustments myself in Target.
I have never heard of ‘Audiocon fitting software’. As I have found out with Google, it is rather a consulting tool for hearing aid dispensers to select the right aid. Access to the Phonak hearing aids to adjust them can only be done with Target.
To your questions: yes, these settings can be made individually in the different HA programs.
Feel free to ask here if you have further questions.