Phonak P90-R Bluetooth sound drifting from centered to one side while streaming

Hearing Aids
#19

I get the same and it also happens sometimes with the TV steamer too. It can sometimes be provoked by head turning.

When you add in the very long time the app takes to connect to the aids (and also the much longer than other aids time taken to connect by the Noahlink) I suspect there’s a processing capacity issue within the aid chip that Phonak haven’t been able to fix. Their tech helpline just responds with boilerplate empty nothingness.

For example the Oticon aids I also have are instantly connected to the app and similarly fast to connect to the Noahlink.

I have fairly annoying issues steaming when out walking. It can be fine for ages then breakup happens. The aids are set to adaptive bandwidth. Setting to fixed increases the problem.

Usually with Bluetooth or other streaming, designers work to manage a buffer (a length of time) and bandwidth (quality) compromise to allow the user to experience continuous sound while the software works to invisibly manage inevitable connection variability in the background.

I suspect (but I don’t have evidence) that Phonak has some problems here but may have some of that code hard coded into the chip so cannot firmware-fix it (as the app connectivity issue and the Bluetooth breakup have been there through many iterations of updates and are simply ignored by their support).

#20

I am so grateful for response! I have been going nuts trying to find out if I am the only one seeing this issue. My audiologist just seems to want to get a sale and be done with it. I have used a Samsung A12 and not had the drift while out walking, but I will try it some more. I am sitting at my desk and listening to an audio book sent from my S21 Ultra that is 2.5 feet from my head and the drift happens in a few minutes. It is hard to believe it is a signal strength issue. I have the bluetooth transmitter on my PC which is on my desk turned off so it’s signal will not mess with the HAs receiving signal.

#21

Fred, this gave me an idea: can you hand your aids over to your audi, have them put the aids in their OWN ear (if need be, swap the dome you use with a “one-size-fits-all” silicone dome and then actually HEAR what the streaming is doing?

In the old days of analog aids, I recall my first audi hooking up my custom molded Starkeys to a device that looked like a stethescope. That way HE could test how my aids were working.

That said, my Marvel aids occasionally do that very same thing when in streaming mode with the phone: drift from stereo to mono. It’s typically only when the battery life is winding down tho.

#22

My audiologist does not question if it happens. She just does not know why or how to fix it. I will contact Phonak and Samsung and see if I can get anything else done. Every time I contact them I get a different person and I have to go through all the same things again. I have almost given up on getting this problem fixed.

#23

Just had this issue with my Marvels for the past week or so. This morning, I removed the receiver, gave the HA a bit of a brush where the connectors are, then plugged it back it. Been streaming music since then absolutely fine!

#24

I experienced the exact same problem and it totally turned me off listening to music. After a few months I decided to try and solve it myself.

Using the Target software and experimenting with extreme settings I finally found it was the speech setting of the streaming option. Apparently the streaming of music starts of with the setting for music but changes to speech with the kind of music I was listening to. It would switch between those 2 settings depending parts within an song.
What solved it for me was completely wiping the fine tuning settings for streaming and setting it up again from scratch. Getting the speech and music settings as close together as possible (very difficult indeed) I am now almost unable to detect the changes between the 2 settings when listening to music. But most importantly I got rid of the extreme shift to one side.

7 Likes
Phonak P90 streaming
#25

Thanks for sharing, I really like this when we get a very successful DIY project done.

1 Like
#26

I had tried several things and I got so annoyed with the drift and issues with bluetooth connections dropping out while listening to audiobooks during my walks I ended up returning the Life HAs.

As far as I can tell Phonak’s BlueTooth needs more work.

1 Like
#27

Yeah I get this, just remember that Bluetooth (classic) doesn’t work as well outside, works better inside as it uses the walls to bounce the signal around, nothing much outside for this to happen (well depending on where you are, out in the park or in a mall)

1 Like
#28

Yes. There’s an immense difference in outdoor streaming reliability between my P90s and my NHS MFI aids (rebranded Opn 2). The Oticons work in front pocket. The P90s come and go.

I suspect some of the Phonak Bluetooth issues are burned into their current silicon, hence the lack of firmware fixes over a long period of time.

#29

So far in the public beta trial of ios14 and above. I find that the iPhone has much more compressed audio than the iPad. I haven’t had the chance to complain/give my feedback yet (I’m covering another teacher whole timetable while he is on long service leave). So bad that 2 mins, in I can not understand the music or singer clearly. I am suspecting (and only IMO) they are trying to push people onto their proprietary headphone/earbuds, which most of us can not wear.

#30

BlueTooth uses 2.4 GHz signals and they are attenuated by walls and other stuff inside your house. Outside the signals are not attenuated by as much stuff and will reach much larger distances.

Here is a web site that can be used to see the difference in distance in different environments.

My Samsung S21 Ultra (and most BlueTooth devices) should be outputting in the Class 2 power of 2.5mW (4dBm) and reach 10 meters in open air.

Normal BlueTooth should not have any issue reaching from one’s pocket to the HAs located behind your ears unless their BlueTooth antenna has very poor gain and it probably is very small and this may be the real issue.

My streamer will pick up my phones BlueTooth signal outside up to about 30 feet while it is in my front pocket.

I have a BlueTooth unit for my Arduino that is mounted outside and it has an 1/8" x 1/2" antenna and it will transmit and receive from ~ 50 feet including going through a three layer window.

I think the problem with the HAs BlueTooth has to be related to the antenna size and low noise amp in the HAs.

#31

No I don’t think so, the issue is outside, no issues inside, so in your situation you have line of sight, as in straight line no issues good for 50 feet which is nice, so no it’s a interference issue, like when in a box (room) works prefect, but when in a large open space you get these issues (not always…but there you go) so if it was the antenna in the HAs it would happen all the time.

#32

I suspect Phonak has an issue with their buffer management and/or adaptive bandwidth code for the Bluetooth. If you ignore the breakup it does recover after a while, suggesting the code is ‘just’ very slow. As is the highly variable 4-15 second (sometimes needing an app close and reopen) connection time to the app. Agonising sometimes. Their inability to fix it is ‘documented’ by their addition of the blue pop up notice on the app saying connection may take ‘some time’.

My ‘on the fence’ was resolved yesterday. They went back. I walk daily and having to hold the phone to stream is just not good enough. I suddenly had a moment and realised I was being daft accepting such a limitation for £2.5k when my free NHS Oticon Engage (Opn 2) from 2018 have no such issues.

#33

I agree with you returning them. I did the same and am back using my old set of Oticon Agil Pros with the Oticon Streamer 1.3. Not good stereo sound, but no drift to one side and a good BlueTooth connection.

I am not sure about the signal bouncing inside since it is at 2.4 GHz. Most web sites talk about signal attenuation from the walls, ceilings and floor. I will do some more research about reflection at 2.4 GHz.

#34

Do you suspect your body blocks the signal from the phone to the HAs?

#35

It sure does!..here is a plot:

image

1 Like
#36

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13126964

WH

#37

The thing here is, although the Streamer Pro is bluetooth the Agil Pro are not, so no bluetooth streaming to your HAs so this is why you get a better connection, all those older accessories use a different type of connection to the HAs.

#38

I actually find the streamers are better because they are bigger so the Bluetooth antenna is bigger.

I tried 3 x Phonak ComPilot Air II and they were rubbish in terms of connections compared to my Phonak ComPilot II that I have.