This audiologist is not nearly as good as my previous guy, who retired.
She initially had me 3 day trial the Signia Pure 7x, for a buy price of $4195. When I met with her today, to stop the trial, and told her it was beyond the budget, the Widex Moment 440 was her best deal price, as she did not move down on the Signia Pure cost.
I am going to Costco tomorrow. It was almost like she sensed that, when I didnât jump and buy the Widex. That is when she stated that Costcoâs products are not at the premium level of the Signia that I trialed, or the Widex. I am trying to ascertain how correct that statement is, but frankly that negativity is somewhat of a turnoff to me, as a long time salesman. My wife and I are Costco shoppers, and I also own their stock, and the return policies and business model is a strong one, as a loyal customer. But I have no experience with their HA department, and understand the varying degree of fitter expertise and capabilities can vary greatly from store to store.
I am a long time salesman - but have little knowledge of HAâs per se. I had two quality issues with the Siemen product I have worn for over 5 years, and the first one was covered 100% by their warranty.
I find this forum so helpful. The difference of $700 in cost is not a big deal for me, but I am going into Costco tomorrow with an open mind, and the fitter there is supposedly very experienced.
I also know little about the Widex Moment 440 product, but recognize that the audiologist was truthful that $3200 is a great bargain price.
I ended up buying ReSound at Costco for $2700. The fitter is named Sam at the Costco San Juan Capistrano store. He had his own business up until 2008, and has been with Costco ever since. A 30+ year guy, extremely knowledgeable and professional, degree in electrical engineering. This store was #18 in the Costco USA ranking of hearing aid departments in 2019, and they were #1 in 2020! The ranking is based on a number of factors including sales, return rate, capture rate, etc.
I feel unbelievably lucky, and was shocked when he showed me their rating system. He feels the ReSound Preza product is the best for me, and their app looks great. I am used to 312 batteries rather than rechargeable, so ordered that product.
I had the same experience with a private audiologist - who was trying to sell me $7,000 Widex aids. It was the price and the fact the aids she fitted didnât seem to help much that made me walk away, but her exaggerated claims that Costco sells âyears oldâ technology didnât help her case.
I donât see why anyone wouldnât at least give Costco a try. Itâs not as if you canât return the aids without financial penalty and go somewhere else if you arenât happy with what they fit.
Except that from what Iâve seen people report here, Costcoâs fitters follow best practices as a default.
While average fitter in private clinic probably isnât. And their common method is manufacturer fit + âhow do you hear me nowâ method.
Good fitter in private clinic does follow best practices.
Best is the one who not just follows them but understands them and how hearing works and how loss works, and is able to advice you.
You ask them to tell you if they follow best practices. As a minimum criteria. Judging from the information, youâll eliminate probably 80% of them
What are those? Check dr cliff aud webpage, under resources: https://drcliffaud.com/
And be sure that you understand them (dig around his youtube as well and here on forum), thatâs the only way you can be confident that your fitter is really doing them and not just saying they do but ânot for youâ.
This is awesome!
What prompted you to do that if you donât mind sharing? And in what exactly you gained by doing that? I mean, I as a wearer have some assumptions that fitter who wears aids can better understand how they really work, but so far I havenât met any who do so, so thatâs why Iâm asking you, what you really gained by doing so?
This is one of the best things Iâve heard here!
And all other things youâve wrote, I can only say âyeah, listen to thisâ, great great advice
However, you can do a lot with good provider who doesnât know some aid in its soul. Mine is âjustâ good. We work together, he doesnât know everything, but also, he really knows a lot and is able to troubleshoot things. And he follows best practices to an extent theyâre possible/billable here. In short, quickSIN or similar is nowhere to be found because insurance companies donât take those results in the consideration. But thatâs regional issue
However, what makes him my choice and I only can recommend him is that heâs extremely honest, so I know if he doesnât know something because he tells me so immediately. Or why he doesnât have some tests/further equipment. But also, questions I ask are probably more aligned with difficulty he had on his exams, and not your average customer. Not to mention that he openly talks about prices he has to pay for something, if I ask him. So weâre really great team, even though I wouldnât say for him that he has one aid that he knows in its soul. He said that theyâre basically all the same, so he works with whatever and provides same great results, and he approaches the software with understanding of what really happens deep down, not by learning by heart, which I think many do from what Iâve seen and experienced until I met him.
However, I do DIY myself for all those options and I didnât bother him with that, so I donât know how well heâd be in it, since he didnât touch that part. Options like - more/less directionality of mics, more/less noise block, more/less wind block, per program⌠Thatâs why I canât say heâs utterly excellent since I didnât use him for everything. Heâs great for me, since we work together, and heâs totally on board with me DIYing and keeping him in the loop why I did something, and him making suggestions what I could try do to about some issue.
Just point - it is possible to have great fitter and great results for you even though your fitter isnât satisfying formally all checkboxes from best practices list, but you both have to know why he doesnât do something and whatâs way around it eg how they ensure you get the best possible outcome.
@LawyerFL
However, speech based tests and hearing aid fitting plus after that speech based verification how aids work both with instrument and you doing test again is IMO absolute minimum you have to get.
Walk away really should be the first thing on your mind, not the last. They have to convince you theyâre good for you to stay, and you should come with the assumption theyâre bad. Unfortunately current state of the industry pushes us consumers into this being the better approach for us if we want to really get the value for that insane amount of money weâll pay.
@timcorbett
Iâd just add to this - tech level in aids is about software and hardware features (eg number of microphones), and not about the look of the case itself.
So, with phonak, level 90 means you get echo block and all possible programs in autosense, in level 70 you cannot have echo block at all, and very loud noise is possible only as a manual program.
50 and 30 have just one mic, so they arenât able to provide same level of noise blocks or stereo zoom (where all 4 mics work together to eliminate noise from your back and focus on the sound directly in front of you), plus also they have less and less programs in autosense (thatâs a automatic switch for programs).
Also with tech level comes/might come some reduction in software ability, like 30 will give you lower boost signal-to-noise than level 90.
So audi who says that costoâs aids are not on the same tech level as top original is basically lying.
And âhighest qualityâ definitely needs detailed explanations to be taken seriously.
I personally donât consider those things MDB stated as different as giving better quality, but you or your audi might, thatâs IMO more in the area of personal taste than of objective measure.
Eg I will defend regular battery all day long as a superior solution, while some will insist that rechargeable means better quality.
Yeah, that sounds especially funny when you put in context that HAs actually are released every several years, roughly 4
So, unless you buy at the time of the release, youâll always buy âyears old techâ simply because thereâs no newer.
Marvel vs Paradise difference is negligible (especially for vast majority of users) and I havenât seen USA or other audi who is able to match costcoâs prices of roughly 1500 USD for a pair of KS9 essentially M90s.
Coming from a person who tried them both and learned a lot. And official price here is around 6000 eur for a pair No costco here.
Iâd recommend KS9 to anyone who can get their hands on them.
I wear paradises but wouldnât recommend them unless you REALLY need two BT devices simultaneously connected, which isnât that probable if youâre retired (vast majority of HA wearers), and even if youâre working person, if you donât need calls all the time, then probably you donât NEED paradises.
Yes, paradises do have a new chip, but they donât utilize it anything significantly different than marvels do their chip. I expect to see something really new with the next line, when paradises which are basically public beta testing for that chip age a bit and give feedback.
Belong was testing field for marvels (streaming to only one aid), which are polished well working product (binaural streaming).
My fitter honestly told me that he cannot match those online prices, but he pointed out service he can provide for his price. Which is why I decided for him among other things.
I think we donât mind paying more if we really perceive weâre getting the value for that. Spitting on someone doesnât show how you bring me value, quite the opposite.
I mentioned case design for two reasons: 1) I like to try to be complete and 2) Iâd read somewhere that Phonak put considerable effort into designing the microphone openings to reduce wind noise.
They even changed them between marvel and paradises, not the shape but the position, one has more parallel another is a bit like V shape. I forgot what youâve said which case KS9 uses though?
However, unless you say this, OP has no clue and honestly I didnât pay attention why âcase is differentâ would matter.
So Iâm glad that youâve answered with more details
I believe the KS9 uses Hansaton case. I figure if people want more info, they can ask for it.
Wind noise, which the Costco audiologist could not bring down to non-annoying levels even after consulting with Phonak, is the only thing I find unsatisfactory about my KS9s. I wear headbands when outside if thereâs wind because of it. I suspect the different case design of the Marvels would be better there, but for the price difference wouldnât have gone for them even if it was guaranteed.
You have to factor in ability to pay. I did without hearing aids, knowing I needed them, for years, mentioned the unhappy experience with the $7,000 audi to my doctor (I went expecting a price of maybe $3,500, which would have been a stretch), and the doctor was the one told me to go to Costco, that more of his patients who wore aids were satisfied with them than with private audiologists. Only then was I able to afford aids. My first pair 6 years ago cost about $2,500.
Headband would do the trick. Costco will also give you little hearing aid covers that will cut out wind noise too.
True. I was comparing those who can afford audi price vs costco. Even if you can pay that doesnât mean you want/should if you arenât getting the value.
Of course, if audi is out of your range, then costco might be a lifesaver
I went from Widex very poorly fitted without best practices by private audi, to great fitter at Costco. Saved a lot of money with a better solution (Phonaks). Their money back guarantee is no risk. Availability for anytime adjustments or questions was another selling point.
Well, I step away from my computer for a few days and this whole post blows up!!!
Iâd like to answer the question posed to my about what prompted me to start wearing hearing aids even though I donât have hearing loss.
I have worn hearing aids very faithfully (10+ hours per day) for about 4 years. I would be lying if I said that bluetooth wasnât a part of that decision. But really I want to be able to look someone in the eye and say that if I can wear them all day everyday then you can too. I have learned so much about the daily use of hearing aids and dealing with any stigma that can come. Frankly, I love that I have not actually experienced any stigma and that most people donât even notice that I wear them. My patients typically like that I wear hearing aids. They know that I am going through the same experiences that they are and that I understand both the Audiologist side and the Patient side of hearing aids.
Dear Enoch,
I sure wish Iâd had your advice 7-8 years ago when I bought my first pair of HAâs. From a friendâs recommendation I used a guy that inherited the business from his dad. He probably didnât have much training in hearing. I received the standard hearing test of the tones. My loss is from 1000 Hz up. I hated the HAâs from day one. Went back to him for 2 years every month if not more trying to explain to him my issues. He said I was the most persistent customer heâd ever had and that I made him learn more about hearing than anyone ever had. After one broke and he wanted another $2000 for it, I said thatâs it. I didnât wear HAâs for another two years. Finally after much complaining from my wife, I tried Livingston Hearing Center. $7000 for a pair of Starkey CICâs. Standard hearing test of tones and Speech Recognition. I was impressed at first. After receiving the HAâs, same deal, over amplification in the upper frequencies. Continued to go back for adjustments occasionally for another 1.5 years with not much improvement. As others have stated here, the Audi makes some clicks on the program, hands the aids back to you and says âHows that Soundâ. " How the heck do I know, Weâre in your quiet carpeted office". Not once did he say, "Lets put you back in the booth and do some speech recognition or simulate some environments. Luckily I stumbled on to this site and acquired the software, learned where to buy the hardware and programmed them myself. Now I can understand my grand children, understand the waitress in a noisy restaurant , wear them all day if I so desire, etc.
So, to all on this site, I hope you donât have to go through the miserable experiences I have had with two Audiâs. You deserve better. Take Enochâs advice and learn what to ask and when to walk out.
Sarge,
Iâm not sure how to share any kind of contact info on this site, but Iâd be happy to do a remote session with you. If you have the software and hardware to program your hearing aids, I should be able to compare your settings with your hearing loss to see if you are on the right track or if a few simple tweaks could be made to get you better long term results.
Let me know if youâd like to spend a few minutes looking over your programming.
Iâll try contacting you in a private message and we can go from there.
Thanks for the offer.
Hello and THANK YOU SO MUCH for your most sensible advice. May I know in what city you have your practice? Iâm a very old senior and a newbie and I went as far as taking a couple of hearing tests during the past 2 or 3 years but fear getting the wrong hearing aids - some of the testing audiologists seemed to be so uninterested⌠If you happen to live in NYC Iâd love to have you as my audiologist and be fitted with the proper aids. Iâve been found to be âmoderate to severeâ and am still vain enough that Iâm afraid to be seen with them unless the invisible ones are efficient and reliable? If not you, do you (or anyone in this thread) happen to know an audiologist in NYC as profoundly interested in his/her profession and as intelligent as you are? Anticipating big thanks for prompt response. :o)
nuevadela,
Wow, thank you so much for considering coming to see me!!! Unfortunately I donât live in NYC, but my business model is actually setup to work remotely with people. I have clients all over the US, one in China and one in Scotland. If youâd like we could private message and discuss how I may be able to help you.
Hello Enoch, well said. You must be a provider? Audiologist? In what city are you? I hope in NYC⌠Itâs difficult to find a knowledgeable provider for such expensive and complicated hearing aids.
I have auditory neuropathy (just learned the name) not just very low audio, as you well know, which makes it doubly difficult.
Oh Enoch I apologize for writing you again today, i guess I forgot I had written you on the same subject in March! I guess Iâm a little nervous to do this by distance as itâs my first timeâŚ
Just curious minded - where is this list? Iâve got several in a practical driving distance. Iâm comfortable with the one I have an upcoming appointment with, Iâve seen him before. But it could be good information if I have follow-up problems.
Fred F